The SPSC, in conjunction with the Scottish Trades Union Congress, is mobilising for a demonstration in solidarity with the Palestinians when the Israeli football team, Hapoel Tel Aviv, appear in Glasgow on Wed 2 Dec for a Europa League fixture against Glasgow Celtic.The reasons for this demonstration of solidarity are as follows:
Israel attacks Palestinian sports facilities, bombed Gaza stadium.
Israel usually prevents the Palestinian team from competing:
• Before the last World Cup, Israel forced Gaza players to wait weeks at the Israeli controlled
Rafah border to join their West Bank team-mates for training – in Egypt!
• Stopped from travelling to play a World Cup qualifier in Singapore in 2007, they were eliminated for failing to turn up. FIFA refused to allow them to re-schedule.
• The team were barred from travelling to India in May 2008 for the AFC Challenge Cup with possible qualification for the 2011 Asia Cup.
• The Palestinian National Youth Football Team was barred from re-entering Gaza for over a month after they competed in Jordan in June 2007.
• The British government helped Israel by refusing visas to enter Britain for a tour – the official reason being that the Palestinian players were ‘too poor to be trusted to return home’. (These are the most tenacious people in the world in clinging to their homeland despite massive Israeli violence!)
• The team are usually forced to play “home” matches in a virtually empty stadium – abroad.
• Israel allowed the Palestinian national team one single match on home soil, in October 2008 but not in Jerusalem and team captain, Saeb Jundiya, was barred from leaving Gaza.
During Israel’s assault on Gaza three Palestinian players were killed in their homes by Israeli bombs: Wajih Mushtahi, Khalil Jaber and Ayman Alkurd.
Israel bans footballs (as well as pasta and coffee) from entering Gaza! Israel claims footballs, pasta and coffee could be used for military purposes. The real purpose is to cause hunger and misery to the people of Gaza.
Most Palestinians are refugees, victims of earlier waves of Israeli ethnic cleansing, and exile means they are unable to participate in the national sporting institutions of their country.
Contact Celtic Supporters for Palestine: Liam 07519 575 060 /Ahmed 07769 850 691
Order Palestinian flags and scarves for 2 Dec
Join and support the Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign
___________________________________________________________________
Scottish PSC: all volunteers with no paid staff. Donate to our campaigning work:
Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign (Glasgow)
c/o Fire Brigades Union, 52 St Enoch Square, G1 4AA
0131 620 0052 / 0795 800 2591 campaign@scottishpsc.org.uk
Entdinglichung on said:
Hapoel Tel Aviv is the team with the most left-wing supporters in Israel: http://www.ultrashapoel.com/english/
Armchair on said:
#1 Well they should understand the protest then. If being left wing in Israel doesn’t mean having at least a modicum of sympathy for the Palestinians then it doesn’t really mean very much IMO.
Mark Victorystooge on said:
Wikipedia says they had a reputation as “Communists” in the 1920s and 1930s, but that is quite a while ago.
badnewswade on said:
So you’re finally going to boycott a radical, left wing antifascist football team.
And you support a right wing, extreme conservative government in Iran as well as crypto-fascist religious movements, particularly in Palestine – simply because they hate the Isrealis and want to kill them all.
If this is what being left wing in Britain means, then it doesn’t really mean anything at all.
Boab on said:
Ah, mixing sport, politics, violence, sectarianism and religion. Just what Glasgow needs more of.
Boab on said:
Why don’t you just go for a repeat of Munich in 1972. That worked out real well.
Mark Victorystooge on said:
Is there in fact a radical left wing in Israel? Because if there is, they have not been making their voices heard very loudly. Hapoel are linked to Histadrut, which approved of the bombing of Gaza. “Hapoel” means “worker”, I understand, but then so does the “A” in the abbreviation “NSDAP”.
Anonymous on said:
#4 Yes, just as the kibbutzem were set up and promoted as an experiment in socialist solidarity. The only problem of course is that they were set up on stolen land which had been ethnically cleansed of the indigenous population and who were banned from participating in this particular brand of ‘socialism’ thereafter.
If their supporters are left wing, and anti-fascist, then just as Armchair says in #2 they will support the boycott and understand its necessity.
Connolly on said:
The Israeli embassador will be in attendance, so even if Hapoel fans are “Left wing”, the protest can be aimed at him.
Connolly on said:
@ #5 Politics will always play a huge part in sport in Glasgow. Are you against politics being mixed with football or are you just against these politics ?
Barry Kade on said:
Yes, aim the slogans at Israeli ambassador. And if PSC is calling for a comprehensive sporting boycott of Israel, until certain demands are met, then again, fine.
But its useful to know a bit about Israeli football and politics. Hapoel F.C. and fans, the Ultras Hapoel, have taken a stand against anti-arab racism within Israel and its football. They lead the way with the first Arab players in the 80’s. They see themselves as the enemy of the Israeli right-wing. They protest, waving anti-racist banners, etc against the most disgustingly racist and zionist-supremacist team in Israel – Beitar Jerusalem. Beitar have a no arabs policy. Ultras Hapoel and Ultras Sakhnin run joint anti-racism operations. Sakhnin are the leading Arab based team in Israel. Hapoel are the bitter rivals of the ‘bourgoise’ and patriotic Tel Aviv Maccabi F.C, which they say have the same relationship to the Israeli state as Real Madrid had with Franco. Hapoel FC also runs youth programs in Druse and Arab-Israeli areas, as well as on the west bank for Palestinians. While this FC activity may be window dressing, a lot of the anti-racist and left wing sentiment amongst the Ultras seems genuine.
So alliances may be built with Hapoeal fans. The protest should go ahead, but comrades on the demo’s would benefit from a nuanced approach, based upon this intelligence. Also. have plenty of red flags, as well as Palestinian flags!
Boab on said:
Are you against politics being mixed with football or are you just against these politics ?
I am against politics getting mixed up in sport in any way, whether in Munich in 1972, the American boycott of the Moscow games or any other form.
The picture of a Scottish game of football surrounded by one lot singing songs about Ireland, an Italian religion and a German Pope who lives in Italy whilst the lot at the other end swear allegiance to a German Royal family and a religion based on German and Swiss religious interpretation picking sides between two groups of fuckwits in the middle east who both think the land is theirs because Allah/ J-weh said it was, strikes me as just a little bit stupid.
I’d prefer sport to be about sport.
After Munich, as far as I am concerned, the Palestinians and their supporters lost all rights to any comment on any form of sport anywhere and for all time.
Keith Watermelon on said:
I am against politics getting mixed up in sport in any way, whether in Munich in 1972, the American boycott of the Moscow games or any other form.
So you DON’T think apartheid south africa should have been boycotted?
After Munich, as far as I am concerned, the Palestinians and their supporters lost all rights to any comment on any form of sport anywhere and for all time.
You’re a moron, and quite possibly a racist one at that.
Boab on said:
Keth Watermellon
Munich 1972. A proud day for Palestine. A bunch of Palestinian terrorists murder Jews for being Jews, and I’m the racist.
Fuck off you wanker.
Palestine + Sport = Munich.
End of debate.
graham on said:
and how many palestinians have been murdered by Israel simply for being arabs boab?
you don’t have to be a defender of munich to see that israel’s continuing oppression of palestinian rights- including sporting rights, are manifestly wrong and should be opposed.
good luck to the protest.
Mark Victorystooge on said:
The animated film “Waltz For Bashir” was a good indication. A bunch of post-1982 Israelis stumbling around suffering from memory loss. With good reason. They let Falangists into a refugee camp and the resulting massacre comes as a total surprise. Allegedly.
Keith Watermelon on said:
Palestine + Sport = Munich.
End of debate.
That’s not the end of the debate, that’s guilt by association (specifically you attacking palestinian people on the basis of their nationality i.e. you being a disgusting racist) and collective punishment. you must be proud.
josh on said:
would someone care to remind me how often there are protests outside matches involving england and english teams because of the occupations of, most prominently, Iraq and Afghanistan?
Armchair on said:
#18- I’m sure if a visiting English/ British (or US) team to another country, in any sport, was protested against because of Iraq / Afghanistan it would be regarded sympathetically by those organising the event at Celtic Park.
Btw before anyone starts, I know Scotland is in one sense another country, but the Black Watch etc are part of the British Army (as were the Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders under “Mad Mitch”.
KrisS on said:
I’ve not heard of any josh – are you planning one? Let us know the details.
Mark Victorystooge on said:
There have, I believe, been anti-US protests at sporting fixtures in some countries. I don’t know about protests against English/UK participation. Remember that the UK has only been a junior partner, while head office has been Washington.
The fact is that there are often few or no sporting relations with countries where protests are likely. A basketball or volleyball game involving an Israeli team at the time of the Gaza bombing was aborted when spectators began throwing shoes at the Israeli players. Turkey was unusual in being a Muslim country that Israeli players routinely visit.
Sporting fixtures have sometimes given an indication of how much anti-US feeling there is in the world. Just after 9/11, officials in Turkey called for a minute’s silence at a football match. A large number of fans could be heard chanting “Down with the USA”. And this was before Iraq and Afghanistan were invaded.
Keith Watermelon on said:
I enjoyed the banner at Anfield when the Iraq war started: ‘Don’t Attack Iraq – Nuke Manchester’
Armchair on said:
#22 YSB!
Keith Watermelon on said:
nope, i’m from london.
anon on said:
‘The SPSC, in conjunction with the Scottish Trades Union Congress, is mobilising for a protest against the Israeli football team, Hapoel Tel Aviv’
Not according to the STUC press release which is asking Celtic (btw the Club is called Celtic, not Glasgow Celtic) fans to show solidarity with the Palestinians by waving Palestinian flags. The protest is not directed against Hapoel or their fans.
The opportunity to show Palestinians that they are not entirely forgotten may strike a chord with an element of the Celtic support who have some understanding of what it means to be marginalised and discriminated against in their own country.
aarghh on said:
#24 The S is for Southern 😉
Bluenose on said:
“The opportunity to show Palestinians that they are not entirely forgotten may strike a chord with an element of the Celtic support who have some understanding of what it means to be marginalised and discriminated against in their own country.”
Is that why they wave Irish flags at a Scottish football match. To show they are in their own country?
joe90 kane on said:
Here’s a comment I posted to another forum – I thought it might be of interest to SU denizens.
By the way,
it isn’t just His Excellency, Big Ron, who’ll be turning up at Celtic Park Wednesday night. There will also be a representative of the UK registered charity (and therefore British taxpayer-subsidised), the racist Jewish National Fund.
Dr Death himself will proabably be at the game. Dr John Reid, MP for British war crimes and islamophobia, is the Chairman of Celtic. I couldn’t believe it when he got the job. His presence is an on-going insult to the club’s great history and traditions.
I posted this news to mlmb last week.
Celtic chairman and war criminal, Dr John Reid MP, prefered to go to a football match rather than attend the local Rembrance Sunday Service to commemorate the memory of all those British soldiers he was responsible for sending to an early grave –
MP Reid misses Remembrance service but goes to Celtic match
Wishaw Press
11 Nov 2009
A spokesperson for the Airdrie and Shotts MP said: “Dr Reid has traditionally attended the national service at the Cenotaph in London but this year was unable to do so as he was travelling. However, he always observes the Remembrance and broke his journey on Sunday to observe the two-minute silence at precisely 11am.”
See this call for help, details of demo, leaflets to download and more etc –
Demonstrate for Palestine at the Hapoel Tel Aviv game on Wednesday 2 December
Coming Events
Scottish PSC
02 Dec 2009
ps
FARE praises UEFA for anti-racism leadership
UEFA
25 Oct 2009
Kick It Out
Football Against Racism in Europe
pps
Glasgow Palestine Human Rights Campaign seems to have sold out of the Palestine national football strip at the moment.
Maybe they’ll get more in stock in time for Xmas –
Football Strips
Shop
Glasgow Palestine Human Rights Campaign
See the GPHRC homepage for video with this caption –
The GPHRC had a request for Digital video cameras with night vision. The Campaign donated 3 within hours the cameras were put to good use at Billin during a night raid by the IOF this film was shot using one of them
joe90 kane on said:
Here’s a comment I posted to another forum – I thought it might be of interest to SU denizens.
By the way,
it isn’t just His Excellency, Big Ron, who’ll be turning up at Celtic Park Wednesday night. There will also be a representative of the UK registered charity (and therefore British taxpayer-subsidised), the racist Jewish National Fund.
Dr Death himself will proabably be at the game. Dr John Reid, MP for British war crimes and islamophobia, is the Chairman of Celtic. I couldn’t believe it when he got the job. His presence is an on-going insult to the club’s great history and traditions.
I posted this news to mlmb last week.
Celtic chairman and war criminal, Dr John Reid MP, prefered to go to a football match rather than attend the local Rembrance Sunday Service to commemorate the memory of all those British soldiers he was responsible for sending to an early grave –
MP Reid misses Remembrance service but goes to Celtic match
Wishaw Press
11 Nov 2009
A spokesperson for the Airdrie and Shotts MP said: “Dr Reid has traditionally attended the national service at the Cenotaph in London but this year was unable to do so as he was travelling. However, he always observes the Remembrance and broke his journey on Sunday to observe the two-minute silence at precisely 11am.”
See this call for help, details of demo, leaflets to download and more etc –
Demonstrate for Palestine at the Hapoel Tel Aviv game on Wednesday 2 December
Coming Events
Scottish PSC
02 Dec 2009
ps
FARE praises UEFA for anti-racism leadership
UEFA
25 Oct 2009
Kick It Out
Football Against Racism in Europe
Anonymous on said:
#25
‘The opportunity to show Palestinians that they are not entirely forgotten may strike a chord with an element of the Celtic support who have some understanding of what it means to be marginalised and discriminated against in their own country.’
This makes me laugh. The notion that Celtic fans are politicised and ready to take up the cause of the oppressed is ludicrous. Any of the lofty ideals and history of this ‘once’ great club are no longer applicable. The appt of John Reid as chairman, with hardly a peep of protest from the fans, was illustrative of the fact that Glasgow Celtic (and, yes, most Celtic fans I know refer to their team with the prefix Glasgow attached) is now just another money grubbing, commercial business which cares not a jot about issues of oppression, injustice and war crimes.
Christy on said:
I am sure Celtic fans will find an appropriate way of showing solidarity with the Palestinians.
badnewswade on said:
If their supporters are left wing, and anti-fascist, then just as Armchair says in #2 they will support the boycott and understand its necessity.
Will they support you lot handing out PLO flags to Scottish football fans, effectively trying to stir up trouble at a football match (interestingly that is also a tactic used by many a fascist)
James N on said:
Speaking as a Celtic supporter and resident of the East End, there is a significant spirit of friendship with the Palestinian people amongst the club’s support and the Irish diaspora in Scotland generally.
The spirit of Palestinian solidarity exists here to a far greater extent than at any other Premier League club in Scotland or England. Obviously, this is caused in large part by the living memories of the oppression and discrimination suffered by Irish immigrants to the UK in the 19th and 20th Centuries. Of course, much of that migration was directly caused by British Imperialism’s colonisation and subjugation of its Irish neighbour; so, for the person quibbling about which country we faced oppression in – take your pick. With regards to which country we should regard as “our own”, I like to be greedy and claim both!
There are nuances to be aware of (including Hapoel’s radical traditions), and within the Celtic support – as within the Palestinian solidarity movements generally – we must always resist those who espouse reactionary anti-Semitic arguments.
But is it a good thing that Celtic fans will use this opportunity to express support for the cause of Palestinian freedom? Absolutely.
Long Live Palestine!
Jim McL on said:
The Palestinian flag has been on display in the stands at Celtic Park for years.
Anonymous on said:
#33
Fine words indeed – though somewhat belied by the fact that the present chairman, John Reid, was party to decisions made by a British goverment that led directly to the illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq, resulting in 1 million people slaughtered.
For me, as a former supporter of Celtic, this was the end. Sadly, for the 60,000 who continue to attend Parkhead week after week it’s been a case of business as usual.
Solidarity demands more than the waving of a few flags. It demands action.
jock mctrousers on said:
” This makes me laugh. The notion that Celtic fans are politicised and ready to take up the cause of the oppressed is ludicrous. ”
I agree, but not entirely for the reasons you gave.
Not to disparage the genuine Irish supporters of the Palestinian cause, but Sinn Fein supporters took up the Palestinian cause and flag purely to try and pretend that catholics in N. Ireland are in the same circumstances as the Palestinians, an ‘occupied nation’, which is a sick joke – victimhood politics, the sympathy vote. So the N. Ireland protestants took up the Israeli flag. So, since for a small minority of nuts ( like you seem to get in every football team’s support), Celtic is the symbolic champion of Irish Republicanism and Rangers of unionism, loyalty to the queen and no-popery, now Celtic supporters wave the Palestinian flag and Rangers the Israeli one.`
Most Scots readers will be aware of all that, but English readers might not. So, the point is that one can’t be too sure if ‘Palestinian supporters’ at a Celtic game actually even know that Palestine is a place, never mind have good reason for supporting the cause. But at least they’re probably not anti-semites.
Keith Watermelon on said:
This makes me laugh. The notion that Celtic fans are politicised and ready to take up the cause of the oppressed is ludicrous. Any of the lofty ideals and history of this ‘once’ great club are no longer applicable. The appt of John Reid as chairman, with hardly a peep of protest from the fans, was illustrative of the fact that Glasgow Celtic (and, yes, most Celtic fans I know refer to their team with the prefix Glasgow attached) is now just another money grubbing, commercial business which cares not a jot about issues of oppression, injustice and war crimes.
Palestinian flags have been appearing at Parkhead for decades – it’s a club with quite a solid left-wing tradition amongst a section of its fans. It’s borne out of historic solidarity between Irish Republicans and Palestinians, the legacy of colonialism.
Christy on said:
“but Sinn Fein supporters took up the Palestinian cause and flag purely to try and pretend that catholics in N. Ireland are in the same circumstances as the Palestinians, an ‘occupied nation’, which is a sick joke – victimhood politics, the sympathy vote. So the N. Ireland protestants took up the Israeli flag.”
Because as we all know the decent folk of Ulster only ever react to provocations fron the Fenians.
Geoff Bell wrote in his book The Protestants Of Ulster ” The Protestants Of Ulster are the most disliked and misunderstood people in Europe – they do not deserve to be misunderstood”. Geoff is an Ulster Protestant and Jock is a mild version of the sort of thing he was talking about.
Armchair on said:
What is “victimhood”? I know it’s an allegation often made against Jews by anti-semites and Holocaust deniers.
I tend to find that it’s generally a term used by supporters of the oppressor who want to blame the oppressed for their own misfortune.
Anonymous on said:
#37
When I was regularly attending Celtic matches in the early to mid eighties I don’t recall ever seeing a Palestinian flag, nor coming across badges or any literature whatsoever signifying support for the Palestinian cause.
Is your statement based on your own experience, or like much involving Celtic supporters – mythology? I rather think it’s the latter of the two.
Celtic’s Irish Republican tradition is well known, as is the affinity between the Republican cause and that of the Palestinian people. Visit the Falls Road and you will see this celebrated in murals. However, let’s not overegg the pudding. As a result of their decision to court Irish-American support (btw, Irish Americans are notoriously among the most vicious reactionaries and racists on every issue other than Ireland), Sinn Fein relinquished everything but symbolic support for the Palestinians. In fact, Adams has lapsed into the two tribes mindset vis-a-vis Palestine/Israel which was correctly rejected by the Republican movement when it came to depicting their own struggle.
Keith Watermelon on said:
you’re clearly mistaking me for someone with any love for gerry adams
jock mctrousers on said:
No, I’m not denying that the N.Ireland catholics got a raw deal and suffered discrimination, but to pretend that they are suffering an oppression anything like comparable to the Palestinians is ‘not helpful’.
I never heard of the Catholic/Palestinian and Protestant/Israeli thing until about 2002 since when I’ve met several Irish people who told me that the nationalists hang Palestinian flags in their streets, seen a documentary in which I saw footage of both sides with their flags, and read a few articles that said the same. Maybe it IS a myth, or exaggerated… All the same I’d think twice about wearing a pro-Palestine badge in some areas of Glasgow, and it’s not zionists I’d be worried about.
jock mctrousers on said:
And another thing:
“Geoff Bell wrote in his book The Protestants Of Ulster ” The Protestants Of Ulster are the most disliked and misunderstood people in Europe – they do not deserve to be misunderstood”. Geoff is an Ulster Protestant and Jock is a mild version of the sort of thing he was talking about.”
What sort of thing was he talking about? Or do you just mean I’m a British non-catholic? Or is it somehow less acceptable to ‘the left’ to be a non-catholic in Scotland or N. Ireland than it is in England?
Ben on said:
““Hapoel” means “worker”, I understand, but then so does the “A” in the abbreviation “NSDAP”.”
Comparing Israeli football fans with the Nazi Party. Nice.
Do you have many friends, Mark Victorystooge, or does the reeking stench of your rank, crass anti-semitism tend to put people off?
Lapsed Fenian on said:
“but Sinn Fein supporters took up the Palestinian cause”
I’m pretty sure Loyalists in Northern Ireland were flying the Star of David before the Shinners (or Celtic supporters) started flying the Palestinian flag.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_T8t5gwy9dIw/RdquHKx44FI/AAAAAAAAABI/SGCXmqctS8E/s400/UDA+Israeli+flag.jpg
Unionists in NI see themselves as being in a similar boat to the Israelis – an elect people being encroached upon by scabby reprobates who practise a totalitarian religion and breed like rabbits, but yet seem to have the rest of the world’s sympathy. At least the Ulster Protestants, to their credit, managed to negotiate peace and power sharing and didn’t go around accusing all their critics of anti-Protestantism.
vildechaye on said:
RE: that’s guilt by association (specifically you attacking palestinian people on the basis of their nationality i.e. you being a disgusting racist) and collective punishment. you must be proud.
He suggested a boycott of Palestinians because of Munich. It’s amazing that you don’t see the irony of your words, you who is promoting a sports (etc.) boycott of Israelis on the basis of THEIR nationality and the same kind of collective punishment. I guess that makes you a disgusting racist, and I’m sure you’re proud.
vildechaye on said:
RE: Resulting in 1 million slaughtered.
Who exactly slaughtered 1 million Iraqis?
Charlie on said:
Oh dear.
Bringing politics into Glasgow football ALWAYS ends in tears.
This is a seriously stupid way to show solidarity with the Palestinians.
badnewswade on said:
Fine words indeed – though somewhat belied by the fact that the present chairman, John Reid, was party to decisions made by a British goverment that led directly to the illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq, resulting in 1 million people slaughtered.
Yeah… funny that. Why, it’s almost as if the Isrealis are being used as scapegoats for the Iraq war. It’s not as though politicians would ever do anything like that though…
For me, as a former supporter of Celtic, this was the end. Sadly, for the 60,000 who continue to attend Parkhead week after week it’s been a case of business as usual.
Solidarity demands more than the waving of a few flags. It demands action.
I wonder what kind of “action” Anonymous is referring to? What kind of “action” could you take at a footie match in a country well known for it love of sectarianism and football violence?
Hmmm….
badnewswade on said:
At least the Ulster Protestants, to their credit, managed to negotiate peace and power sharing and didn’t go around accusing all their critics of anti-Protestantism.
What about all the people like myself who are not Isreali or Jewish and have no connections to Isreal or Zionism whatsoever, who nonetheless still feel there is an undercurrent of anti-Semitism in the Palestine movement? How would you explain that phenomenon?
jock mctrousers on said:
” What about all the people like myself who are not Isreali or Jewish and have no connections to Isreal or Zionism whatsoever, who nonetheless still feel there is an undercurrent of anti-Semitism in the Palestine movement? How would you explain that phenomenon? ”
I think the massively financed propaganda campaign to depict support for Palestine as anti-semitic may have something to do with it.
Anonymous on said:
#49 yes, bandnewswade, ‘hmmm’, written like a true arsehole.
it would have thought that it was obvious to all except the most obtuse and dim that the action i was referring to may have involved boycotting celtic matches in protest at the selection of john reid as chairman, perhaps at the very least protests at the grounds, banners, etc.
now, i wonder why someone would come on this thread and attempt to distract, dissemble, and distort people’s words?
hmmm…
lone nut on said:
“it’s borne out of historic solidarity between Irish Republicans and Palestinians, the legacy of colonialism.”
Yes, strange how this spontaneous anti-colonialism of the oppressed never surfaced until our postmodern era. Fenians like Mitchel were sympathetic to the Confederate cause, while later nationalists like McBride organised armed support for the Boers. Inasmuch as you will find references to the plight of the colonial masses in historic Irish nationalist literature, it is to protest that white people are being treated as badly as black people, not to protest about the treatment of black people. And right up until the early Provos of the 1970s, if Irish Republicans sympathised with any anti-colonial struggle it was that of Eoka-B and indeed that of the Irgun and Stern Gang. And as for Palestinian flags flying for decades at Celtic’s ground, it is sheer nonsense – such flags were barely seen anywhere in Britain until the 1990s, nobody would have known what they were. I think any Palestinian who was told by some earnest Celtic supporter that their plight resembled that of Catholics in Scotland or Northern Ireland would laugh themselves hoarse, and assume this was some kind of Zionist candid camera stunt.
Anonymous on said:
#53
‘I think any Palestinian who was told by some earnest Celtic supporter that their plight resembled that of Catholics in Scotland or Northern Ireland would laugh themselves hoarse, and assume this was some kind of Zionist candid camera stunt.’
Nonsense. There are indeed similiarites between both, specifically with the treatment of the Nroth’s catholic/nationalist population in the fifties and sixties. It’s also significant that Sir Ronald Storrs, an early British military governor of Jerusalem described a future Zionist state as a ‘little loyal Jewish Ulster’ in the Middle East. So from the very beginning the British ruling class identified similarities between the two.
Those similiarities are obviously states founded on the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population, apartheid, and racism and/or religious sectarianism.
Charles Dexter Ward on said:
Keep football Judenfrei! I wonder how many Scottish trade unionists are aware of or would tolerate this crap. And what a lovely inspiring picture you’ve posted. Symbolic of how these people are ashamed to show their faces. How sad that sickos get their rocks off to this sort of thing. What do the “Keep Racism Out Of Football” crowd think of it?
jock mctrousers on said:
#55 ” Keep football Judenfrei”? What? Are you saying that ALL jews are vicious racists?
Anonymous on said:
#56
I think he’s saying that solidarity with a beleagured, occupied, poor people is wrong – and that instead we should stand by and watch them continue to be ethnically cleansed, brutalised and terrorised.
I think that’s what he saying.
CHarles Dexter Ward on said:
What the fuck’s this got to do with “solidarity”? It’s about demonising a whole people, that’s what it’s about.
Anonymous on said:
#58
Watch your language. This is a public forum, not the local pub.
Was the anti-apartheid movement about demonising white South Africans?
Or is it more the case, as I think it is, that you are an islamophobe who takes every opprtunity to demonise muslims, Arabs and anyone colonised people that dares resist their oppression.
Do you agree that the Palestinians are oppressed in the first place?
So, again, would you have expressed the same sentiments in relation to the anti-apartheid in South Africa movement as you have here?
joe90 kane on said:
Latest news from the Scottish PSC – 10,000 Palestinian Flags are tobe handed out at the Celtic game this Wednesday.
29/11/09: Football fans to fly the flag for Palestine
SPSC
29 Nov 2009
Media Release; Sunday November 29th 2009: Football fans to fly the flag for Palestine
Celtic fans are set to show solidarity with Palestine when their team takes on Israel’s Hapoel Tel Aviv in the Europa League on Wednesday.
Campaigners aim to issue ten thousand Palestine flags to fans entering the Parkhead venue, as an act of solidarity almost one year after the Israeli attacks on Gaza that left over 1400 Palestinians and 13 Israelis dead.
Mick Napier, chair of the Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign described the flag-waving as “an opportunity to let the Palestinians know that we have not forgotten their ongoing suffering.
“Ministers and generals back in Israel, and the Israeli Ambassador who plans to attend the game, believe they will once again evade United Nations demands that they be prosecuted for war crimes. Whether they do or not, the flags will show that Israel has already been convicted in the world court of public opinion.
Lifelong Rangers fan, Alasdair Smith, has been leafleting recent Celtic games to publicise the upcoming activity: “The public in general is outraged at Israel’s crimes, and football fans are no different. We oppose each other on the terraces, but we stand together when it comes to human rights.”
The flags are being funded by the Scottish Trades Union Congress (STUC) as part of its support for the Boycott Israel campaign. Deputy General Secretary, Dave Moxham, said, “We hope that Celtic fans will join with us in a demonstration of support for a just and lasting peace in Israel/Palestine.”
ENDS
Notes for editors:…..
ps
The game is being televised live on UK terrestrial.
Match kick-off 20.05.
Here is the Radio Times listing –
Uefa Europa League Live
ITV 4
17:30 -22.35
Wed 03 Dec 2009
If you don’t have tv reception then try Radio Scotland macth commentary online.
As you listen picture all the waving Palestinian flags and the looks on the coupons of His Excellency, Big Ron, and the rep from the racist JNF –
Sportsound 01/12/2009
Radio Scotland
Christy on said:
“What sort of thing was he talking about?” Jock he was talking about the mentalties and mythologies of Ulster Protestantism from an insiders perspective.
I mentioned it because of your language ‘victimhood’ and your view that “one can’t be too sure if ‘Palestinian supporters’ at a Celtic game actually even know that Palestine is a place, never mind have good reason for supporting the cause.” reminded me of the sort of thing Ulster Protestant Unionists like to say.
I cannot remember if Geoff deals with the attempt to prove that the Planters were the Lost Tribes of Israel or not. Suffice to say the Ulster Protestant identification with the ‘Chosen People’ goes back sometime and was not a great leap for a people who saw themselves as the Elect of God surrounded by strangely unappreciative natives beautifully described by Lapsed Fenian above.
Lone Nut I’m sorry for your accident. Now “Fenians like Mitchel were sympathetic to the Confederate cause, while later nationalists like McBride organised armed support for the Boers.” Fenians like Meagher fought for the Federal cause as did four times as many Irish in America as fought on the Confederate side. So what have you got there?
Of course McBride fought (he was an IRB man) for the Boers he wanted to destroy the British Empire. I hope you don’t think The British were fighting to emancipate the African from the cruel Boer because that would make you an idiot wouldn’t it.
Anyhow best of luck to one and all with the protest.
lone nut on said:
Christy,
“as did four times as many Irish in America as fought on the Confederate side”
And do you have any indication whether those Irish people were Protestant or Catholic, or had greater or lesser sympathy with the maintenance of the Union back in the British Isles? Many more Irish-born people would have lived in the north then in the south by that time, and in any case since Union soldiers were drafted participation in the war is no evidence of political beliefs. But I really wouldn’t want to discuss the US Civil War if I wanted to make a case concerning the intrinsic anti-racist sympathies of Irish Catholics, frankly – see precisely the Draft Riots in 1863.
“So what have you got there?”
An indication that there is no intrinsic fit between Irish Republican sympathies and opposition to racism. That, remember, was the initial assertion made.
“I hope you don’t think The British were fighting to emancipate the African from the cruel Boer”
No, but neither were the Boers fighting to emancipate the Africans from the British. And McBride wasn’t fighting for the Africans either, despite his IRB sympathies. That is my point. It seems that in your view anybody who challenges trite nationalist verities must per se be a pro-imperialist buffoon – maybe you should get used to constructing arguments around verifiable facts rather than lazy prejudice.
As for the view of anonymous that “apartheid” is a meaningful characterisation of the situation in NI, now or in the 1950s, I sincerely hope some of those clowns from Harry’s Place are not still hanging around. Because nothing would please them more than to say that Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians is no worse than what goes on or has gone on in NI, and I can imagine that idiots like Brownie probably believe that. And they could legitimately raise the question of why you are not protesting about British football teams playing, especially ones with former ministers in this apartheid government helping to run them.
Anonymous on said:
lone nut, you really are short on political analysis, aren’t you? No comparison can ever be symmetrical, but similiarites in regard to how settler colonialism operates, and the distortions it creates, in different parts of the world do exist. Now the nationalist population in the six counties enjoy nominal constituitional parity with their unionist neighbours, though the fact there remain more British troops in the North of Ireland than in Afghanistan shouldn’t be forgotten.
So to continually harp on about there being no similarity at all between two groups of people who have been or are the victims of settler colonialism is silly.
Of course, the Palestinians have been and continue to be treated much more barbarically than the catholics in the North were. But relatively speaking, considering that British colonialism lies at the root of both conflicts, it is right to draw comparison and for the purposes of solidarity connections between the two.
lone nut on said:
“Now the nationalist population in the six counties enjoy nominal constituitional parity with their unionist neighbours”
Yes, actually Catholics and non-Catholics have enjoyed substantive formal legal, political and civil equality in the United Kingdom since Catholic emancipation in 1829. Catholics have been involved at every level of political activity for as long as the UK has been a liberal democracy with mass suffrage – indeed, O’Connell’s movement both before and after Emancipation was to some degree instrumental in the creation of mass democratic politics in the modern era, in tandem with Jacksonian democracy in the United States. Now perhaps it is due to my lack of political analysis, but I see no particularly suggestive parallel between this and the situation of black people in South Africa, Muslims in Algeria, or Palestinians in mandate Palestine/Israel/OTs over the past couple of hundred years. The latter groups were precisely denied citizenship rights and the right to participate in democratic politics. Even if we narrow it down to the case of NI, the problem is not that nationalists are denied citizenship or legal/political rights, but that they are offered citizenship rights in a country they do not wish to be part of. Fair enough, and there are many similar cases to that, but none at all presents any parallel to the case of the Palestinians in the OTs and the refugees outside the OTs – Israel denies them any rights whatsover, effectively denies their existence and refuses to take any responsibility for them, while also refusing to take its boot off their necks. This is, as Juan Cole says, tantamount to slavery. Imperfect comparisons with very different situations don’t strenghten the Palestinian case, they weaken it – and as I say the HP mob love to claim that there is nothing at all unusual about the Palestinian situation.
As to settler colonialism, if you thing you can map out a progressive future for Irish politics by characterising a million people as colons, good luck.
Charles Dexter Ward on said:
I never thought I’d feel ashamed to be a trade unionist, but here we have the STUC stoking up racial hatred at football matches. What sort of politics is this? It’s truly appalling.
badnewswade on said:
I think the massively financed propaganda campaign to depict support for Palestine as anti-semitic may have something to do with it
Would that include the fascist clown Dieudonné M’bala M’bala?
http://www.thejc.com/news/world-news/22467/iran-funds-comics-anti-zionist-film
Christy on said:
Ah your a daftie lone nut. Federal forces overwhelmingly Irish Catholic. Confederate a mixture. What is the point of you saying stuff about the American Civil War if you don’t really know what your talking about?
You see what’s happening here is your trying to construct a subliminal narrative of racist Paddies who therefore have no right at all to express solidarity with oppressed Palestinians. Well it won’t work here pal your rumbled.
Enough with the strawmen. McBride did not have IRB sympathies he was IRB. He had no illusions about fighting for the African he was attacking the British Empire. By the way one of McBride’s comrades was Robert Noonan you would know him better as Robert Tressel author of The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists. McBride’s Grandson was active in the ANC.
It is a historical matter of record that the struggle for Irish freedom inspired peoples across the British Empire to attempt the same. It has also left the Irish very prone to sympathy with the oppressed. In this case Palestinians. You may not like that but so what?
Boab on said:
Christy
“In this case Palestinians. You may not like that but so what?”
So when are the descendants of Irish colonial settlers going to hand Boston back to the Mi’kmaq?
lone nut on said:
Christie, having seen some of your previous contributions here I don’t find it surprising that as usual you have relapsed into personal abuse, identity politics and “anti-imperialist” bluster rather than any attempt at rational argument.
“Federal forces overwhelmingly Irish Catholic. Confederate a mixture”
I don’t know what your definition of overwhelmingly is, but Wikipedia gives a total of 9% for Irish representation in the Union forces, without any sectarian background. The Irish were the biggest foreign component of the Confederate forces.
“You see what’s happening here is your trying to construct a subliminal narrative of racist Paddies”
No, I am deconstructing a racist ethnocentric narratives which presents Irish Catholics as uniquely given to progressive or anti-racist impulses. As an Irish Catholic I have seen absolutely no basis for this belief, and I don’t think Irish Catholics are intrinsically more progressive than Irish Methodists, Presbyterians or Jews for what it’s worth.
“who therefore have no right at all to express solidarity with oppressed Palestinians”
I would certainly wish to maximise solidarity with the Palestinians and not introduce communalist crap from Ireland or anywhere else into that solidarity movement. Can you imagine Palestinian solidarity activists in London or Birmingham being daft enough to limit their movement to supporters of a particular football club or religious grouping?
Incidentally my family comes from the same town as Major Macbride and my father was a strong personal friend of the Macbride family. So I don’t have to read about him in books like your good self. As I said before, it seems literally incomprehensible to you that somebody can be an Irish Catholic without believing a load of simplistic ethnocentric self-pitying crap. Well, to coin a phrase, you may not like it but so what?
Omar on said:
Hats off to the organisers for getting this excellent demonstration of solidarity together. I doubt I’ll be able to see the match but it’d be heartwarming to see all those Palestinian flags on telly!
Keith Watermelon on said:
He suggested a boycott of Palestinians because of Munich. It’s amazing that you don’t see the irony of your words, you who is promoting a sports (etc.) boycott of Israelis on the basis of THEIR nationality and the same kind of collective punishment. I guess that makes you a disgusting racist, and I’m sure you’re proud.
Try again. Boycotting Israel, on the basis of Israeli state policy and action (an apartheid, expansionist, colonial settler state) is utterly valid. Attacking Palestinian people on the basis of what a few people who represented very few people did in Munich is absurd and racist. But now I’m trying to reason with a deranged racist. which of course is pointless.
badnewswade on said:
Even when it’s the most left wing team in the country with an Arab captain and which actively promotes reconciliation through sport as well as anti-racist protests?
Face it. When you deliberately stir up sectarian trouble against a left wing footie team because they’re from Isreal (rather than say, boycotting the match?) you’re not doing this because you’re against the Isreali governments policies. You’re doing this because you don’t like Jews.
badnewswade on said:
Oh, btw Harry’s have linked to this
http://www.mifalot.co.il/mifalot/Language/English/info.aspx?id=82
So how is this part of the vast Zionist conspiracy then?
Keith Watermelon on said:
Face it. When you deliberately stir up sectarian trouble against a left wing footie team because they’re from Isreal (rather than say, boycotting the match?) you’re not doing this because you’re against the Isreali governments policies. You’re doing this because you don’t like Jews.
No, I imagine they’re doing it as there will be a huge tv audience in scotland, israel, and around the world. And if the hapoel fans have as great politics as you say, they’ll welcome the palestinian flags and campaign for boycott, sanctions and divestment.
badnewswade on said:
Will they welcome being greeted by a load of abuse though? Will they welcome a riot kicking off?
No, if you really don’t agree with Isreal you boycott the match, don’t turn up and start trouble. That’s really low.
Keith Watermelon on said:
Will they welcome the moon turning into a giant donkey’s anus? See, I can play this game too.
anon on said:
Badnewsswade
The ‘protest’ will consist of Celtic fans waving Palestinian flags.
The purpose of that is simply to show some support for the plight of the Palestinians.
Who knows, perhaps some of them may actually see the game on telly.
Hopefully the sight of Palestinian flags will embarass the Celtic Chairman, Dr Death, and his guest the Israeli ambassador.
There will be no animosity shown to the Hapoel fans, that’s not the purpose of the exercise. In any case, given their level of political awareness I doubt they’ll be offended by the sight of Palestinian flags.
Anonymous on said:
There will be no animosity shown to the Hapoel fans, that’s not the purpose of the exercise. In any case, given their level of political awareness I doubt they’ll be offended by the sight of Palestinian flags.
How about passing out Palestinian and Israeli flags? You know, symbolically supporting the idea of the two peoples living in peace?
Or is that too much of a concession for you “one-state solution” types?
jock mctrousers on said:
” How about passing out Palestinian and Israeli flags? You know, symbolically supporting the idea of the two peoples living in peace? ”
That’s the funniest one yet. And how about Paul McCartney and Madonna opening the proceedings, singing something like ” let’s pretend there’s a peace process all the way to the bank…”
” Can you imagine Palestinian solidarity activists in London or Birmingham being daft enough to limit their movement to supporters of a particular football club or religious grouping?”
And I’m sure that MOST activists in Glasgow are also aware of that, but I’ve also encountered too frequently the sort that feel that not being a catholic means not being oppressed means having somehow a lesser title to express solidarity with the Palestinians or anyone else. Of course these people are just hucksters, but there are more than a few of them. That’s part of what I mean by ‘victimhood politics’. This is not to argue against the handing out of 10,000 Palestine flags to Celtic supporters, but to caution that there will be an inevitable reaction from the percentage of Rangers supporters who are frankly an embarrassment to all nominal protestants in Scotland i.e. more waving of Israeli flags. Please, rather than crowing (like George Galloway will inevitably do) that this will show that all Scots protestants are vicious neanderthal nazis, try instead to persuade Rangers fans that they could greatly improve their public image, and also neutralise the propaganda value to ‘the other side'(for those that see it that way – I don’t), if they too waved Palestine flags.
Christy on said:
‘No, I am deconstructing a racist ethnocentric narratives which presents Irish Catholics as uniquely given to progressive or anti-racist impulses.’ And the proponent of this narative is -You! So you set up the strawman so you can knock it down. Your motivation is question the value of the solidarity proposed by Celtic fans.
“my father was a strong personal friend of the Macbride family.” Pity he did not tell you McBride was in the IRB then. I have my own McBride connection admittedly not inherited from the Da though.
Aye and lonenut people who rely on Wikipedia should not despise books.
There is no ‘simplistic ethnocentric self-pitying crap’ here just you trying, and very ineffectively I might say, to use Mitchell, McBride and the American Civil War to diminish the solidarity of Celtic fans. And now your huffing and puffing because your rumbled.
zkharya on said:
Well, I doubt many Scottish Jews will be rooting for Celtic on Wednesday, especially if characters like you polarise the issue so.
And that is going to have exactly the opposite effect to the one intended.
What a shower’o charlies.
Mick on said:
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zkharya on said:
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zkharya on said:
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Armchair on said:
#82 Again, if these characters are as progressive as is being stated, they will understand the point.
Christy I think Lone Nut is well ahead on points btw although it’s an interesting exchange.
zkharya on said:
Your point being, Armchair, that Scottish Jewish sympathy and/or support for Israel is reactionary, and always has been.
badnewswade on said:
” let’s pretend there’s a peace process all the way to the bank…”
At least you’re starting to admit that you don’t believe in peace. Just to clarify – do you not believe that peace between Arabs and Isrealis is desirable?
Armchair on said:
#86 I wasn’t making a point about Scottish Jews, the contributions have got mixed up because of deletions.
My view on @sympathy for Israel’, whoever it comes from, is straightforward – if it arises from the Holocaust and is based on no knowledge of the reality of what the Zionist project means then I understand it. Clearly this is very unusual these days.
Otherwise it is “reactionary and always has been”.
zkharya on said:
Well, excluding Jews is the pattern of European national socialisms, so it’s hardly surprising the Scottish Celtic should be different.
zkharya on said:
Or, rather, no different.
Armchair on said:
#89- Nobody is being “excluded”- a protest is taking place against Israeli opression of the Palestinians, which I assume anyone is welcome to participate in, including the many Jews who sympthise with the Palestinian plight.
zkharya on said:
No.
Some idiots are identifying support for Scots, largely Catholic or other Christian Celtic, in a largely cultural Christian-Muslim alliance, is uniquely, especially, both pro-Palestinian Muslim and Christian nationalist, and progressive, while support for Hapoel is uniquely, especially, reactionary and, in their cipher sense of “racist” etc, Zionist.
And idiots like you are quite openly associating that with a discourse that implies or asserts Scottish Jewish sympathy for Israel is reactionary, racist etc.
Listen, do what you want.
You think you will undermine the Jewish state of Israel, what you call “Zionism” etc.
But all you will do is confirm Scottish Jews in their belief that something in the Zionist view of the world is correct: that the good people of the common or garden proletariat is not very friendly to Jews as a people, of the which the Jewish state of Israel is a not inconsiderable chunk.
And, in the end, that from which Israel gains strength is Jews.
lone nut on said:
“So you set up the strawman so you can knock it down”
Let’s look at the straw man I set up:
“It’s borne out of historic solidarity between Irish Republicans and Palestinians, the legacy of colonialism.” Keith Watermelon
“It has also left the Irish very prone to sympathy with the oppressed” Christy (who plainly doesn’t include Irish Protestants among “the Irish” since he devotes considerable space to attacking them and approvingly quotes a writer who calls them the most disliked people in Europe (incidentally, I should think the Roma at least might have something to say about that).
So the notion that Irish Catholics have some unique propensity to solidarise with the oppressed has indeed been advanced. All I am saying is that I have spent most of my life with Irish Catholics in Ireland, Britain and elsewhere and have not noticed this. Perhaps if I were to spend my time in whatever shebeen Christy and his pals hang out in I would be pleasantly surprised.
“Pity he did not tell you McBride was in the IRB”
I refer to Macbride’s IRB sympathies. You chose to interpret this as meaning Macbride was not in the IRB. I cannot help you with your inability to grasp basic English constructions. But I would welcome some insights into some of the wonderful anti-imperialist Irish Republican solidarity Macbride showed with black Africans during the lengthy period he was in South Africa (incidentally, though I don’t know Macbride’s view on the matter, his close friend Arthur Griffith’s opinion was that Ireland should have an empire of its own – but I’m sure you know that).
“people who rely on Wikipedia should not despise books”
I relied on Wikipedia to quickly dispose of your bizarre notion that the Union Army was overwhelmingly made up of Irish Catholics. I notice you don’t pursue the point.
“And now your huffing and puffing because your rumbled”
Yes, is it possible for you to conduct a proper argument without coming out with all this aggressive pub bluster like you were fucking Taggart or something? It seems to be a perennial problem with SSP types when they lose what little thread they have.
Anonymous on said:
#89
Here we have a fine example of that old Zionist canard of seizing the status of victim. The boycott campaign is NOT about excluding Jews – how could it be when many of its most committed proponents are Jewish themselves?
It is about solidarity with a people who are excluded from every aspect of life and treated as untermenschen as a matter of state policy by Israel.
Israel is not the victim here, rather it is the victimiser. The boycott campaign stands squarely on the side of its victims.
Are we clear now?
John on said:
To those under the misconception that there are no historical links between Irish Republicanism and the Palestinian struggle, this letter should clear the matter up. Written by Palestinian prisoners, it was smuggled out of Nafha desert prison, where they were being held, and delivered to the Falls Road after the death of Bobby Sands on hunger strike in 1981.
To the families of the martyrs oppressed by the British ruling class. To the families of Bobby Sands and his martyred comrades.
We, revolutionaries of the Palestinian people who are under the terrorist rule of Zionism, write you this letter from the desert prison of Nafha. We extend our salutes and solidarity with you in the confrontation against the oppressive terrorist rule enforced upon the Irish people by the British ruling elite.
We salute the heroic struggle of Bobby Sands and his comrades, for they have sacrificed the most valuable possession of any human being. They gave their lives for freedom.
From here in Nafha prison where savage snakes and desert sands penetrate our cells, from here under the yoke of Zionist occupation, we stand alongside you. From behind our cell bars, we support you, your people and your revolutionaries who have chosen to confront death.
Since the Zionist occupation, our people have been living under the worst conditions. Our militants who have chosen the road of liberty and chosen to defend our land, people and dignity, have been suffering for many years. In the prisons we are confronting Zionist oppression and their systematic application of torture. Sunlight does not enter our cell; basic necessities are not provided. Yet we confront the Zionist hangmen, the enemies of life.
Many of our militant comrades have been martyred under torture by the fascists allowing them to bleed to death. Others have been martyred because Israeli prison administrators do not provide needed medical care.
The noble and just hunger strike is not in vain. In our struggle against the occupation of our homeland, for freedom from the new Nazis, it stands as a clear symbol of the historical challenge against the terrorists. Our people in Palestine and in the Zionist prisons are struggling as your people are struggling against the British monopolies, and we will both continue until victory.
On behalf of the prisoners of Nafha, we support your struggle and cause of freedom against English domination, against Zionism and against fascism in the world.
Larry Nugent on said:
I am a Celtic season ticket holder, and I am proud of the efforts of this STUC iniative to highlight the oppression against the Palestinian nation.
As Celtic supporters with over one hundred years of experience of discrimination in Scotland and over six hundred years of oppression in Ireland this protest must not die out after 90 minutes. We have a duty to maintain solidarity.
Hail Hail! Fly The Flag! (Palestinian flags of course)
doom n gloom on said:
All well and fine, but Parkhead should have been picketed the moment John Reid walked through the door, we still have no condemnation by Reid of his former friend and fellow football fan Karadzic. No condemnation of Karadzic’s use of the dilije in the pesecution of moslems. Perhaps Reid plans to use the Jungle as a power base when an independent Scotland collapses into sectarian war with the Derry end marching behind some South African emigre in the formation of a Scottish Orange Free State.
Personally I would Picket Cappielow for playing crap.
By the way one of the main reasons lots of young asians support the tic is that they do not have to walk past the BNP who are often hanging about outside Ibrox.
joe90 kane on said:
By the way one of the main reasons lots of young asians support the tic is that they do not have to walk past the BNP who are often hanging about outside Ibrox.
– That is a disgraceful lie. How dare you!
They don’t support the Gers simply because they’re crap.
I know what you mean when you descibe these youngsters as ‘asians’ doom and gloom though, and I’m not trying to split hairs or anything – but really, these people are as Scottish as porridge oats mate. Scots-Asians maybe, but not simply ‘asians’, as they aren’t.
Mind you, there are some of these Scots-Asian characters who bring their own part of our community into disrepute by continuing to flirt with the extremist view that Rangers can actually play football and that a Rangers season-tickets offers good value for money –
Rolled-up Trousers
Osama Saeed putting a bit of stick about
Sam on said:
Havent got a clew, get out of the telephone box, and speak to some real people.
Surely,we dont want to devide the left
surely we should be building and supporting the Left in Israel
(as well as Gaza)
Celtic Fans should have encouraged both sets of fans to attend anti rascist festival etc
but no a boycott
that told them
doom n gloom on said:
98# Scots-Asians maybe, but not simply ‘asians’, as they aren’t.
understand, but I was thinking more of the Weegie Asians against say the Fife Asians for example who all support Liverpool or Arsenal
And both sets of the Old firm are crap but that is my biased opinion,
zkharya on said:
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jim mc donald on said:
The last game i went to was an old firm game a while back now,and the only solidarity the fans were showing was support for their mates nocking the shit out of the opposing fans.
Armchair on said:
#92 I choose the word Zionism because the political ideology on which the state of Israel was founded is called Zionism- not controversial I would have thought.
And who has suggested that support for this Israeli team is uniquely reactionary?
Unfortunately I literally cannot understand some of what you are saying.
doom n gloom on said:
Is it not ironic that the same kids that spray BNP on the walls of Glasgow are the same kids that are spraying SF, there appears to be no force educating the working class in these areas and the Left in Scotland has been beguiled by the Parliamentary route and the working class support labour to the hilt, this protest means little to the majority. But I do agree with it, Im full of contradictions
Armchair on said:
#104- SF?
Don on said:
You aren’t a real Celtic supporter if you support this protest.
Hapoel Tel Aviv runs soccer camps for Palestinians in the West Bank and our supporters are actively engaged in anti-fascist anti-racist activism including a major anti-racism tifo with Arab side Sakhnin.
Hapoel also runs camps in the Druze community and has major suport from the Arab and Druze community.
Most of us actively support a just two-state solution to the Palestinian-Israeli loathe what happened in gaza. Personally, i have been involved in peace activism since 1999, not dumb flag-waving endeavours with no real intent other than provoking controversy.
We have also hosted Celtic supporters twice with no ill-will on either side.
We are not Israel, don’t protest!!
doom n gloom on said:
105# sinn fein
Anonymous on said:
In response to #106
http://www.scottishpsc.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3005:hapoel-tel-aviv-the-left-wing-of-ethnic-cleansing-and-genocide&catid=375:israeli-football&Itemid=200277
apollo on said:
Useful here to remember that the Scots, after the Highland Clearances, emigrated to Western Canada and took part in the genocide of the peoples that they found there – as well as stealing their land.
Eddie Truman on said:
#109, in what way is that useful ?
Are today’s Scots culpable for the actions of previous generations ?
Are other nations similarly responsible for previous generations ?
The Germans ?
The English ?
Apollo on said:
When people are oppressed beyond endurance they will do desperate things. The Celtic supporters might wish to remember that their own ancestors were once in the same dire straits ad the ancestors of the Hapoel players.
Eddie Truman on said:
#111 Ah, I see what you mean.
Formerly oppressed Jews become genocidal maniacs towards the people whose land they have stolen.
apollo on said:
But unlike the Scots, without the extermination of the large part of the indigenous population.
Eddie Truman on said:
Fantastic. Let’s hear it for the Israelis, genocide with an acceptable body count.
Boab on said:
Nice one Eddie. Jews are genocidal maniacs and land thieves.
Boab on said:
“Let’s hear it for the Israelis, genocide with an acceptable body count.”
Number of Palestinians at the start of the genocide 1.4 million
Number of Palestinians after 60 years of genocide 8.6 million
If the UK population had gone through a similar genocide, there would now be 301 million of us. I think you need to buy a dictionary.
doom n gloom on said:
Ok the Bhoys win and are still out and Hapoel go on I think, does the protest follow them. And how did the protest go anyway.
music lover on said:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1132431.html
Nelson Muntz on said:
Ha Ha!
jim mc donald on said:
Aint it time to give a body swerve to the solidarity movement of Palistin,a barny that even the crusaders coudny solve,and get back to our door step.Consentrate on our own fucked up social deprivation.
Charles Dexter Ward on said:
Hopefully the STUC will have learnt a lesson from this embarassing debacle.
Jim McL on said:
121
The STUC are an embarrassing debacle of an organisation.
badnewswade on said:
Aint it time to give a body swerve to the solidarity movement of Palistin,a barny that even the crusaders coudny solve,and get back to our door step.Consentrate on our own fucked up social deprivation.
Comment by jim mc donald — 3 December, 2009 @ 6:40 am
You mean concentrate on the working class and economic inequality rather than what some religious crackpots halfway around the world are doing?
Surely that’s hardly appropriate work for a socialist organisation?
jim mc donald on said:
Not at all,we should be concerned about the middle east.What i am saying is that for some time now we have spent to much time and energy of that question, to the depriment of our own people.I live in n.z. and have for some years now i get back to Scotland, now and again.And what i see is sad.Make no mistake n.z. has the same social deprevation as that of Scotland (dont believe the travel brouchures)in many ways n.z. is sliping back to a thrid world economy especialy in working condition and wages.Yet like you our left parties and there are quite a few, are polarised with the Palisine question.
This has lead to a lack of addressing the imediate issues that face their people on a daily basis.
Christy on said:
“And do you have any indication whether those Irish people were Protestant or Catholic,” You asked, I answered. So no, I did not say the Federal armies were overwelmingly Irish Catholic.
“I cannot help you with your inability to grasp basic English constructions.” I will have to manage without you then but sympathies was not the right word.
“I would welcome some insights into some of the wonderful anti-imperialist Irish Republican solidarity Macbride showed with black Africans during the lengthy period he was in South Africa”. Ask your Dad as you seem very proud of your family McBride connections. Nelson Mandela seemed happy enough with it though.
“Perhaps if I were to spend my time in whatever shebeen Christy and his pals hang out in I would be pleasantly surprised.” Not as suprised as me its decades since I was in a shebeen.
“It has also left the Irish very prone to sympathy with the oppressed” Christy (who plainly doesn’t include Irish Protestants among “the Irish” since he devotes considerable space to attacking them and approvingly quotes a writer who calls them the most disliked people in Europe (incidentally, I should think the Roma at least might have something to say about that).”
I do assure you lonenut I’m a daily intimate of Irish Protestants. Sash on the Mammy’s side don’t you know? Three generations of Catholics and Protestants marrying in my family. That would be beyond your ken though. Oh and I doubt you know Romanies let alone Roma. So enough with the attempt to project sectarianism.
Would you like some lucky heather?
lone nut on said:
Yes, Christy, whatever. So how did the protest go?
lone nut on said:
But let me just add that I know of no statement by Nelson Mandela endorsing the activities of Major Macbride in South Africa. And the relationship to Robert Mcbride is, incidentally, entirely mythical – it was made up by Mcbride’s brief, David Gordon, during his trial in the hope (which proved successful) of attracting an Irish intervention into the proceedings. But I don’t suppose a distinction between fact and mythology is particularly significant in the political community you inhabit.
mohammad khan on said:
free free palestine cfc#1 great protest at the game, well done for organising
aamert on said:
thanks
ed-hardy on said:
ed hardy t-shirts