The Future of Hope Not Hate

Beyond the BNP, The future of HOPE not hate

By Nick Lowles | Tuesday, 6 December 2011

The HOPE not hate campaign has become one of the largest and most successful political action groups in the country since, it was founded in 2004. Over 165,000 people have participated in our campaigns; we have 50,000 supporters on Facebook and 8,000 followers in twitter.

This incredible level of support has enabled us to achieve some fantastic successes. Our constant and localised grassroots campaigning has seen the BNP defeated in many of its heartlands, most notably in Barking & Dagenham (2010) and Stoke-on-Trent (2011).

We have consistently brought communities together, around positive shared identities, to resist the hatred of the EDL. In March 2011, we convinced the Daily Star to stop its favourable reporting of the EDL, and, in August 2011, we helped persuade the Metropolitan Police to request a ban on an EDL demonstration in Tower Hamlets.

Guiding and underpinning these campaigns has been an excellent research and media team. The current problems of both the BNP and the EDL owe much to our ability to combine research and intelligence gathering with both localised and national campaigns.

The HOPE not hate campaign was launched as a direct response to the emergence of the British National Party as a political force in the northern mill towns. HOPE not hate – with our logo of the smiling sun – was established as the perfect antidote to the BNP’s politics of hate.

While we have traditionally focused on the far right, we also recognise that hate and organised intolerance can come in other forms as well. Just as we stand up to white extremists whose views divide and spread fear amongst communities so we should have the courage to oppose others who seek to spread hatred and intolerance.

The HOPE not hate campaign can be proud of its practical achievements but for many of our supporters it has become something far more important, in that it encapsulates a vision of how society should respect one another. HOPE stands for decency, tolerance, fairness and togetherness. Hate represents division, fear, intolerance and superiority. What began as a snappy slogan to appeal to mainstream voters in the northern mill towns has taken on a far greater significance.

The greatest success of the HOPE not hate campaign has been the success of local communities uniting in the face of hatred and adversity.

HOPE not hate brought communities together in the face of a threat from the EDL in Bradford

HOPE not hate brought communities together in the face of a threat from the EDL in Bradford

We come from – and remain part of – a proud anti-fascist tradition but we are acutely aware that defeating the hatemongers of today requires more than simply firefighting. We currently deal with problems once they appear rather than attempting to stop them occurring in the first place. Whilst we will continue to prevent the BNP from winning council seats and stopping the EDL from setting our communities alight, we also want to be more proactive and unite communities around a positive, united vision of society. We need to be more vociferous in defending basic human rights and promoting a civic identity in which everyone has a place regardless of race, religion or ethnic or cultural background. Standing up for our values – decency, fairness and tolerance – will become ever more important as fear and hatred rise as economic conditions worsen.

Fear and HOPE As our recent Fear and HOPE report graphically highlighted, there is a clear connection between economic insecurity and pessimism with suspicion and hatred of outsiders. There will clearly be a far-right revival over the next few years, both at the ballot box and on the street, and the HOPE not hate campaign needs to be ready to meet this renewed threat.

To help us achieve all this HOPE not hate will be launching a series of initiatives in the New Year:

Campaigning

  • In the 2012 elections we have identified 23 wards at risk to the far right. In London, we will stop the BNP gaining a seat on the London Assembly by mobilising those communities we have identified as being anti-BNP.

Publications

  • we will launch a new publication for the HOPE not hate campaign.
  • We will supplement the magazine with more pamphlets on specific areas of research.
  • We will start producing a weekly on-line International Digest to give our supporters up-to-date news about extremism across the world.

Public Policy

  • We will be seeking to engage more actively in public policy debates, such as Prevent and Integration strategies, but do so in a more innovative way that involves our supporters in the discussions and developing responses.

Research

  • We will expand our research team to monitor a greater range of hate groups.
  • We will conduct further research into the vital Identity Ambivalent tribe our Fear and HOPE report identified. This group, made up of the skilled and semi-skilled, contain the bulk of those who work in the public sector, who are worried about immigration because of their economic insecurity. The research will help us build a firewall to stop this group drifting over to the far right, where they will join the hardline racists.
  • We will also begin a research project into the growing international anti-Muslim networks. This will look at the relationships between the financiers, the bloggers, the politicians and the street armies.

Community

  • Next summer we will host the “Great British Party” as an initiative to unite communities and help develop shared identities in the run-up to the 2012 Olympics. Backed up by over 100 local community newspapers and a new Community Champion award, this has the potential to be our biggest project yet.
  • We develop an online community organising project which will help train and advise local people to organise against fear and hatred in their own communities.

These are exciting times for the HOPE not hate campaign. We have come a long way from our simple beginnings in 2004 and in the process our initiative has caught the imagination, hope and aspirations of thousands of people. With the deepening economic gloom engulfing Europe it is also essential we are ready to face new and growing challenges. Whilst our tactics have evolved, and our targets and vision have expanded, we will continue to do what our title suggests – namely to provide a positive antidote to hate.

214 comments on “The Future of Hope Not Hate

  1. Lawyer on said:

    Why “Great British Party”?

    Sounds exclusive rather than inclusive.

    How about Poles, Afghans, Colombians, Congolese and stateless persons? Not invited to the party?

    Also, even allowing for internecine rivalries amongst anti-fascists, surely you ought to acknowlegethat UAF played a v important role in the victories to which you refer.

  2. Gathering her brows like a gathering storm on said:

    “While we have traditionally focused on the far right, we also recognise that hate and organised intolerance can come in other forms as well. Just as we stand up to white extremists whose views divide and spread fear amongst communities so we should have the courage to oppose others who seek to spread hatred and intolerance.”

    Very pleased about this

    Hopefully we can work together to stop people like Press TV

    This post is well worth reading

    http://blog.thecst.org.uk/?p=3231

  3. Anonymous on said:

    #2 Funny but it is the same paragraph that you like that makes me think that Hope Not Hate are just as big a danger to democracy in this country as the BNP, the EDL or any other fascist outfit. That paragraph screams `look out supporters of the Palestinians because we are coming to get you’. And bang on cue there you are demanding voices you don’t like be silenced. The combination of Lowles’s Zionism and his insistence that the victims of fascism eschew self-defence in favour of seeking protection from the authorities makes HnH a dangerous outfit in regard of democracy and independent organisation.

  4. ALthough the EDL were twice arrested on the assumption that they may both commit breach of the peace in the future, and when there van broke down near tower hamlets, resulting in One of their female yokels falling out the van and beign beat up by the locals, Are the EDl in danger of collpase? their spokesman Tommy robinson who had a prison term and restirianing order , has gone to the British freedom party, but I recall during the riots that they turned wuth baseballs bats in number to a dozen towns.

  5. Gathering her brows like a gathering storm on said:

    #3 Okay I know I shouldn’t feed the troll but I will

    Do you think holocaust denial is legitimate?

  6. Gathering her brows like a gathering storm on said:

    #3 Okay I know I shouldn’t feed the troll but I will

    Do you think holocaust denial is legitimate?

  7. Gathering her brows like a gathering storm on said:

    #6 – No indeed Galloway has a very good track record of opposing anti-semitism as you may know.

    Any please answer my question?

    Also can I ask why you brought up George Galloway? You have read the article I linked to haven’t you?

  8. Anonymous on said:

    #8 Yes you simpleton I have read the article you linked to.

    I am opposed to holocaust denial. What made you think I wouldn’t be?

  9. #8
    The headline to the article you linked to is :”George Galloway represents Press TV”, so bringing up GG is quite pertinent I would think !

  10. cliff foot on said:

    No explanation here, or in Searchlight, as to why Hope Not Hate have effectively split from Searchlight. Both’s Silence about that speaks volumes.

  11. Uncle Albert on said:

    #4 “Tommy robinson … has gone to the British freedom party”

    Tommy Robinson aka Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is still the leader of the EDL and the EDL are now being encouraged to have dual membership in both groups.
    The British Freedom Party form the electoral wing while the EDL form the street wing of what is, in effect, one political party.

  12. Anonymous on said:

    `Whilst we will continue to prevent the BNP from winning council seats and stopping the EDL from setting our communities alight, we also want to be more proactive and unite communities around a positive, united vision of society. We need to be more vociferous in defending basic human rights and promoting a civic identity in which everyone has a place regardless of race, religion or ethnic or cultural background. Standing up for our values – decency, fairness and tolerance – will become ever more important as fear and hatred rise as economic conditions worsen.’

    That’s downright sinister.

  13. Jellytot on said:

    @13 That’s downright sinister.

    To Ultra-Left Revolutionaries I suppose it is.

    we also want to be more proactive and unite communities around a positive, united vision of society. We need to be more vociferous in defending basic human rights and promoting a civic identity in which everyone has a place regardless of race, religion or ethnic or cultural background.

    Actually this is somewhat similar to the public pronouncements of people like Weyman Bennett when he defends Multiculturalism.

    @11 No explanation here, or in Searchlight, as to why Hope Not Hate have effectively split from Searchlight. Both’s Silence about that speaks volumes.

    Well, being a supporter of the SWP you’d know all about splits, eh ?! :-)

    HnH/Searchlight have had a single “split”. You lot have had about three in the past 5 years (Ovenden, Hoveman, Rees, German, Counterfire, Bambery).

  14. Jellytot on said:

    @1 How about Poles, Afghans, Colombians, Congolese and stateless persons? Not invited to the party?

    They are certainly invited to the party. You are too, ‘Lawyer’.

  15. cliff foot on said:

    #14 – you acknowledge the Searchlight/ HNHate split, care to tell us why it happened? A strong organisation can afford to be open about such things, after all.

  16. Jellytot on said:

    @17 you acknowledge the Searchlight/ HNHate split

    It’s pretty obvious that there has been some sort of parting-of-ways but I don’t know the precise details as to why it’s occured or how deep, or otherwise, it is.

    Maybe people who do could comment?

    In terms of HnH’s day-to-day work I’m not entirely sure that it matters; a leading figure of a single issue campaign no longer edits an anti-fascist magazine is hardly earth-shattering in the big scheme of things.

    Searchlight has been around for 50 years and will be around for many more and HopenotHate are lauching an exciting and innovative campaign as outlined in the article. I don’t think either are going anywhere.

    A strong organisation can afford to be open about such things, after all.

    SWP supporters on here (including you ‘Cliff Foot’) keep telling us how strongly the Party has rebounded from recent splits (and how good it was that Rees and co. left) so maybe Hope not Hate/Searchlight can learn from your fine example?

  17. Lawyer on said:

    Well that’s jolly good of you Jelly.

    It may be hard to explain the concept of British “decency, fairness and tolerance” to the disabled single mother who’s just had her benefits stopped, the teenage asylum seeker detainee rotting in Yarl’s Wood despite having committed no crime, the lad sentenced to 6 months for stealing £3.50 worth of bottled water from Lidl or the Basra civilians who have had the sh*t kicked out of them by British squaddies.

    Now of course we could both point to many many British examples of decency / fairness / tolerance. Trade Union campaigns, charities, Greenpeace, blood donors or just the lady who checks whether her elderly housebound neighbour needs a pint of milk before she goes shopping etc. etc..

    However to somehow link those positive values to Britishness is just plain ahistorical.

    Decency, fairness and tolerance are no more intrinsically “British” than inequality, torture, greed and snobbery.

    Still, I might nip along to the Hope Not Hate Great British Party to sample the beer and the music, and to flog some good old traditional British trotskyite newspapers.

  18. cliff foot on said:

    #18 – thanks for the advice re ‘fine examples’ following parting of the ways. Lowles and the whole of the HnH team have gone from Searchlight and Searchlight has completely dropped HnH from its last 2 issues, and not a dicky bird re reasons why…That’s several people, eg Matthew Collins, not just the editor, who didn’t even have a ‘Goodbye’ piece in what was his last issue as editor. When Searchlight walked away from Uaf, some reasons were at least given, poor ones imo, but arguments nonetheless. Still, truth will out.

  19. Uncle Albert on said:

    #19 “I might nip along to the Hope Not Hate Great British Party to sample the beer and the music,”

    No reason why you shouldn’t, welcome aboard!

  20. Stephen Hero on said:

    Are they planning on a ‘Great British Party’ anywhere other than England. I can’t see that going well…

  21. unionworkeruk on said:

    #24 The biggest problem they have in Canada, Archie, is lumbering senile racists like you.

  22. #3 What crap. If the supporters of Palestinians don’t want HnH calling them out for supporting Holocaust deniers, as in Nick Lowles’ proper attacks on the goosestepper Gilad Atzmon, the right way to respond is to stop supporting Holocaust deniers like Atzmon.

  23. Proper discussion of the HnH / SEARCHLIGHT split and its political consequences for antifascists is evidently not to be found on here – neither from this blogs proprietor nor its commentators. This split has been long rumored. But bromide not politics here.

    I suggest readers seeking to be informed do their own research. Not hard.

    Goodnight.

  24. cliff foot on said:

    #28 – well tbh, Barry, That aint enough. A lot of people/union branches subscribe to Searchlight, no doubt several

    such people/branches will be asked to subsribe to the new Hope not Hate magazine. The question will then, understandably,

    be raised, why the split. Why subscibe to both if both are doing relatively the same work? If one is different in certain ways from the other, how so? You suggest that people do their own research, where, from whom, how?

    If you have hard information, please share, if not, fair enough. But its a strange state of affairs, right now.

  25. my dog just googled:

    “Searchlight splits from Hope not Hate”.

    btw. my dog is an investigative journalist with powers that stretch even beyond that of SU.

  26. Anonymous on said:

    Jellytot the voice of hnh suddenly goes all coy about the split and break up of hnh/ searchlight . As hnh was run as a autocratic its hardly surprising that mere footsoldiers like jellytot would be allowed to know why his organisation has fallen apart.
    The answers appear to be money as in lowles wants it and the fact that lowles wants to move even further away from anti fascism and towards a anti extremist position which would enable him and what’s left of the organisation to become even more ashamedly islamophobic and mainstream seems thats where lowles thinks the big bucks are.
    Either way the partys over jellytot and to think you weren’t even consulted !

  27. james? on said:

    im going to be controversial here but i no longer believe that putting leaflets round telling people not to vote bnp does any good what so ever. it just gives them publicity. it may make sense for theire electoral opponements to do this sometimes. i would like if we did an experiment for one year and had no anti-bnp campaigning outside of labour, green liberal respect tusc eg. i bet that things would nt be any worse hnh and uaf could justify existence through educational activities and anti-edl stuff during that time.

  28. “The emergence of Larry O’Hara however changes things.”

    I took your advice and it seems O’Hara has not ‘emerged’ but was making claims of a split over a month ago and suggesting it was money related. Either this is true or its false no doubt we will be told.

  29. Your'e no Victor Serge on said:

    #35 Not surprised that ‘victor’or should that be Nick ? doesn’t usually comment on sites like this more at home at the racist ‘harrys place’ by the sound of things.
    Only an idiot would claim UAF was not involved in Barking and Dagenham ( even Hnh did’nt claim that)
    Your islamaophobic rant is not really worth responding to except to say soft racists like you pose more of a threat to us all than supposed ‘extreme Islam’
    I doubt that you went any where near either Barking or Dagenham during the election
    I don’t give a hoot about OHara or Stott,but the simple fact is HnH and Searchlight have parted ways and we have yet to hear from either side as to why.
    Lowles and his band of ex nazis will I suspect vanish into the media circuit inventing himself as some kind of ‘anti extremist guru’ and a parroting a slightly watered down version of official Islamophobia.
    Given how little HnH has done to genuinely combat the EDL Lowles will be no great loss.
    Hopefully Searchlight will get back to doing what it used to so well and that is exposing the fascists instead of accomodating to Islamophobia

  30. Well, Gerry Gable has stepped in as editor of Searchlight again, Nick Lowles has departed, and the Hope Not Hate logo has been removed from the October and November issues of Searchlight.

    The November issue appeared in the shops in early December, considerably later than usual.

    Nick Lowles statement above makes no mention of Searchlight, which was previously billed as “the magazine of the Hope Not Hate movement” and indeed announces HnH will produce its own publication.

    That looks a little bit like a falling out to me. Or a split.

  31. Victor – It must have been a different Larry O’Hara I have sat next to at virtually every Anarchist Bookfair over the past decade then?

    A different Larry O’Hara who is active in the Greens and who produces the magazine Notes From the Borderland? http://borderland.co.uk/

    If you are going to put up disinformation ‘Victor’ at least make it good disinformation.

  32. “42.SA, Sturm Abteilung?” Oh Christ not another one, no you would be wrong there Victor Serge nor is it Socialist Action. Your poor attempt at a slur is noted though. Your response here is a bit frantic and you are not doing yourself any favours. Wise up.

    Having done the odd thing with Searchlight in the past I’m interested in knowing whether (and why) there is is a split or not. That is all, and I’m sure one way or another the story will emerge. I do not know O’Hara or if he is ‘bonkers’ but that is not what interests me.

  33. cliff foot on said:

    #35 – “impressed by the absence of Uaf”, “everyone knew on the ground Uaf website was …lies”, dearie me. Tell that to the number of Labour councillors alone, who helped contribute, along with many, many others in Barking and Dag. To quote #44, “illuminating”, not, here’s to the real Victor Serge.

  34. ” Quite why EitherSearchlight or HnH have to explain to anyone why there is or isn’t a split is something I can’t understand.”

    Of course they do not but naturaly it is of interest to people on the Left and antfascists generally. Not least to those who have supported either. However thanks to your input I can conclude that their has been a split and I expect that the details will emerge in due course.

    I sincerely hope that for the sake of Searchlight and HnH that you occupy no position of responsibility in either. I never said you were Nick Lowles but clearly you fall well short of a wise man on any measure.

  35. Jonny Mac on said:

    13- ” ‘Whilst we will continue to prevent the BNP from winning council seats and stopping the EDL from setting our communities alight, we also want to be more proactive and unite communities around a positive, united vision of society. We need to be more vociferous in defending basic human rights and promoting a civic identity in which everyone has a place regardless of race, religion or ethnic or cultural background. Standing up for our values – decency, fairness and tolerance – will become ever more important as fear and hatred rise as economic conditions worsen.’

    That’s downright sinister.”

    That’s downright hilarious.

  36. #53 I don’t live anywhere near Barking & Dagenham, but in my area our UAF group has leafleted at every election, organised anti-EDL demonstrations both large and small, sent delegations to national conferences and events, as well as a 100-strong demonstration at the BNP’s annual conference at 24-hours’ notice. We meet regularly, drawing in activists from the Labour Party, trade unions, SWP and other left groups and unaffiliated, and have a democratic constitution. Hope Not Hate just seems to be wheeled out by the Labour Party and TU bureaucracy once in a blue moon, rather than representing any organised forces on the ground.

  37. cliff foot on said:

    #53, perhaps because youre full of shit. If you continue to lie, eg Uaf did nothing in Barking and Dag in 2010, then that thats’s your lookout. Many people know this to be a falsehood, i think the word is Troll as concerns your constant

    nonsense. Criticise Uaf campaign by all means, but this sort of tripe being peddled is pathetic.

  38. Jellytot on said:

    @35 The emergence of Larry O’Hara however changes things.

    Is that the same Larry O’Hara who detests the Left, thinks Griffin and his sidekick Patrick Harrington are tactical geniuses and peddles so many conspiracy theories that even David Icke would balk?

    @32its hardly surprising that mere footsoldiers like jellytot would be allowed to know why his organisation has fallen apart

    How has it fallen apart? All that’s happened is that Nick Lowles is no longer the (un-paid) editor of an anti-fascist magazine.

    Sadly for you Anon, HnH will be around for a long time but console yerself with this fact: at least it will give the SWP part of the UAF somebody to kick against (as they have no effect on the fascists and seem to prefer intra-Left spats).

    @32The answers appear to be money as in lowles wants it and the fact that lowles wants to move even further away from anti fascism

    This is certainly the O’Hara line and no surprise to see Anon at #32 peddling it.

    O’Hara and the SWP: United in struggle! ;-)

  39. Jellytot on said:

    @60 HnH operated out of the local Labour Party headquarters and was integrated into the local community through the Labour Party

    That chimes with my experience of the HnH B&D campaign last year. It was very organised and effective as it turned out.

    What did Griffin say afterwards?, “The Labour Party played a blinder!”

  40. Tony from Aus on said:

    Did you know that Western governments & business are behind genocide of at least 9½ million people in the DR Congo in the last decade ans a half? Just pointing out that there is much more dangerous holocaust denial than people denying a holocaust that happened 60 years ago and cost fewer lives than the one currently being perpetrated by our ruling classes in the DRC. Especially as the one which happened 60 years ago is rather well known while the one which our democratic, liberal ruling classes are doing today is alot less known.

    Sorry about this being a bit off topic but a couple of comments in this thread reflected this misuse of the term “holocaust denial” as a term that can only be used for the denial of historical and well-known holocausts, which is itself a form of holocaust denial &, worse, is facilitating ongoing holocausts.

  41. Victor i can tell you a lot about UAF in Leicester but not much about B&D as I’ve never been there.

  42. Tony from Aus on said:

    On Press TV: its true that its not a good palce to look if you want to find out about protests in Syria, but if you want to find out about protests in Bahrain or Saudi you’re better off looking at Press TV than the BBC. Both media organisations are linked to states that kill people.

    The attitude towards Press TV expressed by some on this thread reflects an assumption that Iranian state is nastier than the British state. This assumption is not born out by comparative body counts.

    Of course, the majority of the Iranian state’s victims are Iranian, while the majority of the British state’s victims are not British. Which says alot about the difference between imperialist and Third World capitalist states and absolutely nothing about the difference between Western Judeo-Christian secularism and Iranian Shia Islam.

  43. Tony from Aus on said:

    Why I’m making posts that may seem off-topic: The fact that working class people in imperialist countries are not their bourgeoisie’s primary victims (in terms of human rights abuses) creates illusions in our ruling classes’ “civility”, and in Third World “cultural backwardness” — the very illusions that racism ultimately is based on.

    The tendancy to ignore holocausts whose victims are black and see an Iranian state-linked media outlet as being worse than a British state-linked media oulet reflect this.

    Anti-racism combines naturally with internationalism not nationalism.

    I have no opinions on which British anti-racist group is doing most work because I’m not in Britain, but I do think there are very good reasons why anti-racists might be wary about getting too cosy with the mainstream political establishment.

    Take the Labour Party. The last British Labour government vigorously took part in GWB’s culling of the Iraqi population. Is to see this mind-boggling crime as secondary to the Labour Party’s position in domestic British politics really an appropriate attitude for anti-racists?

  44. cliff foot on said:

    # 46 and #59 – you have just revealed your own contradictory nonsense – first you say Uaf did nothing, then you claim, well, maybe Uaf did, but it was all a calamity. Frankly, mate, the fact that its taken you over a year to come out with this shite is sad. Give us chapter and verse, you ask. Try asking the Barking MP, as someone suggested earlier, or try any number of Labour councillors re UAF

    in the area. They’ll tell you all you apparently need to know. End of.

  45. cliff foot on said:

    #68 “uaf regarded the white people of the area as either actual or potential Bnp voters (well, some of them were, in case you hadn’t noticed, but what a stupid thing to say) and refused to do any door knocking”, you do know how to tell porkies, dont you. try asking some of the Searchlight, yes, Searchlight, supporters, who

    came out with uaf about the amount of door knocking uaf did,

    “i could go on and on”, indeed, yawn.

  46. Tony from Aus on said:

    A lot of questioning of credentials, and arguments claimed on the basis of first-hand experiance, from someone posting under the name of a long dead revolutionary (ie anonymously). Funny.

  47. Jellytot on said:

    @62 I didn’t know about mad Larry thinking that Griffin and the other guy were tactical genious’. Could we have more of this?

    On the occasions that I’ve dipped in and dipped out of Mr. O’Hara’s writings over the past few decades he seems to have a few constant running themes:

    The Harrington/Griffin axis (through whatever fascist groups they happen to be leading at the time) constantly trump the Left in terms of strategy and tactics.

    The Left are utterly useless and incompetent.

    Whoever opposes Griffin and Harrington (be they rival fascists or anti-fascists) are either directly working for the security services or indirectly serving their interests.

    That’s how I’ve always read it.

  48. I have to admit I didn’t do that much in B&D during the general election but I did do a morning’s canvassing with UAF, along with a couple of hundred other people, which did involve door knocking.

    HnH supporters have the mentality of a sect. They think they’re the only force that can combat the far right and instead of a serious debate about differences with their critics they resort to lies and abuse.

    And we’re still no nearer to hearing an explanation for the HnH/Searchlight split. Presumably it involves some disagreements over anti-fascist strategy. Wouldn’t it be useful to the labour movement to hear what those disagreements are, so we could perhaps learn something from it all?

    I thought maybe the split had something to do with the mobilisation against the EDL in Tower Hamlets, as it appears to have taken place just after that. Searchlight/HnH isolated themselves from the main organisation against the EDL, United East End, failed to participate in the big meeting at the London Muslim Centre/East London Mosque and attended the smaller ineffectual meetings with anti-ELM elements at the Brick Lane Mosque instead.

    The final meeting there on the eve of the EDL demo decided to call on the people of Tower Hamlets to stay at home and not protest against the EDL. In line with this policy, Gerry Gable denounced plans for an anti-EDL demonstration as a “crazy idea” and accused United East End of wanting to “start a fight with the police”.

    Perhaps Nick Lowles has finally reached the conclusion that Gerry Gable is a hopeless sectarian who has become an embarrassment to the anti-fascist movement.

  49. Victor you are hanging youself. If you knew this website at all you would not mistake me for any one else. In fairness you have said you do not know it and that is fair enough.

    However its easy enough to see that your contributions here are about a split. It did occur to me that you might have been a sock puppet for O’Hara but on reflection you are clearly not. You’re just inept not least in your attempts to divert the focus on what the situation between Searchlight and HnH by being disparaging of the SWP and the related UAF.

    Let me be more precise you are fooling no one. Before you shout Trot the Trots here will tell you I’m not.

  50. Jellytot on said:

    @74 HnH supporters have the mentality of a sect.

    Classic ! :-)

    @74 I thought maybe the split had something to do with the mobilisation against the EDL in Tower Hamlets, as it appears to have taken place just after that

    Sherlock Holmes here.

    The HnH strategy of banning the EDL from TH on Sept 3rd carried the day and attempts to re-enact Cable Street/Lewisham in the potential tinderbox that is TH did not, thankfully, come to pass.

    @74 Perhaps Nick Lowles has finally reached the conclusion that Gerry Gable is a hopeless sectarian who has become an embarrassment to the anti-fascist movement.

    That’s weird. I thought that you’d be taking a more ‘pro-Gable/anti-Lowles’ line (not that either make any sense).

    The shifting sands of intra-Left alliances are difficult to predict at times.

  51. victor serge on said:

    SA. Could we have that again in English please? How am I sock puppet for O’Hara? The only reason I posted here at all is because someone rang me up to say his name had been mentioned and I knew as someone who was totally bonkers and a conspiracy theorist.

    I also can’t understand why, even if there is a split between Searchlight and HnH it is any way important even if there has been because it would seem that neither side have mentioned it. Could it just be some internal reorganisation?

    If the source of the info is O’Hara then it is totally unreliable because, as Stuart Home has said, he is mad. If you want a really good laugh google Home and see what he has to say. It’s all a bit tongue in cheek but very funny and well written.

  52. Jellytot on said:

    @75 You’re just inept not least in your attempts to divert the focus on what the situation between Searchlight and HnH by being disparaging of the SWP and the related UAF.

    What focus? Nobody, except the main players, appear to know (and some don’t care too much) and all we are left with is pure guesswork and speculation as illustrated in #74.

    The focus should be what’s written in the article about the upcoming HnH campaign and overall direction.

  53. Tony from Aus on said:

    “Tony from Aus. You’re not doing much better here than on the other blogs.”
    What other blogs?

    Like I said, I have no idea which anti-racist or anti-fascist group in Britain is doing what. Just pointed out that “All I can do is tell you what I know from personal experience and from what I have been told by people who were involved that I know and trust. Where do you get your information from? Do you live in or have ever been involved in anti fascist activities in London or anywhere? I am sure we would all like to know.” is a weird an unconvincing comment from someone who is anonymous. That’s all.

    I know who Victor Serge was. Personally, I think his books far more worth reading than Koestler.

  54. Jellytot on said:

    @73Do you know anything about him being in the Green Anarchist group which was supposed to have been infiltrated by the far right?

    I was aware of some kind of connection but have no in-depth knowledge.

    I first became aware of O’Hara after reading a series of articles he did on the British fascists of the fifties and sixties in a parapolitics magazine called Lobster. They weren’t too bad and I found them interesting to be honest.

    That prompted me to pick up one of his self-published pamphlets in Housman’s and was completely turned off by the bizzare logic and labyrinthine scheming contained within. For instance, an address book lost in a pub turned into a plot involving the Security Services that Dan Brown would have been proud of !

  55. “77.SA. Could we have that again in English please?”

    It is in English and your response is piss poor as you have not managed to read it. You have done a lot of damage today, no doubt you did not intend to, all the same its done.

  56. @ 73

    Do you know anything about him being in the Green Anarchist group

    O’Hara was never a member of Green Anarchist, to the best of my knowledge. He’s a Green Party member.

    which was supposed to have been infiltrated by the far right?

    Nah, there wasn’t any meaningful far right involvement to speak of. You’re possibly thinking of their ex editor Richard Hunt who was a racist. But they’d expelled him on those grounds years before any of this particular controversy. He was editing his own rival paper called “Alternative Green” at this point and they were calling for a boycott of it. He eventually went on to try and organise the “Anarchist Heretics’ Fayre” with notorious fascist Troy Soutghate. (Although that was eventually cancelled after some naughty people apparently made threats to the venue).

    The only person in the GA circle that was known to have any far right history was actually Tim Hepple.

    I know a lot of libertarians wouldn’t have anything to do with them?

    Yeah, we wouldn’t. They weren’t loved among class struggle anarchists. But not because they had far right involvement. It was because they had really shit politics. They were primitivists and into that whole anti-civilisation/anti-technology kick. And they had this bizarre theory where they saw any kind of vaguely rebellious act, no matter how anti-social or stupid, as some kind of vindication. Kids smashing up bus stops.At the funny level, that led to them printing an article promoting trepanning, complete with a how-to guide. At the fucking moronic level it lead to them supporting both the Unabomber and the Aum Shinrikyo gas attack on Tokyo Subway.

    That said, anybody with any political sense suspended most of our criticism during their trial for conspiracy to commit criminal damage. You didn’t need to agree with most of the rubbish they spouted to recognise that the idea that people being hauled up into court on conspiracy charges, simply because they had reported ALF attacks, was a dangerous move from the state. There was definitely secret state involvement in the case; it was admitted in open court. Because of that, a lot of people with serious political issues with GA still supported the defence campaign. Everyone from the NUJ to Red Action. (The latter was especially telling. Feelings had previously run so high between the two groups that RA had decided to indulge their high spirits with a bout of fisticuffs at one of the anti CJA demos).

    Hope that clarifies stuff a bit. Obviously, this is a long time ago and my memory may be a bit hazy. But I’m pretty sure all the basic details I’ve given are correct.

  57. “SA. You really aren’t doing very well at all.”

    I’m doing a damn sight better than you. Reap the harvest.

  58. Hoom – a pretty fair summary.

    Tim Hepple was Searchlight’s mole in the far right, who at the same time infiltrated a series of far left and green groups.

    When Green Anarchist’s editor Paul Rogers demanded he be called as a defence witness at the trial you mention, his barrister, Ken MacDonald, refused to represent him any more, and the case against Paul collapsed.

  59. victor serge on said:

    Should have said that I have found two of O’Hara’s pamphlets. I’ll re-read them and get back. It is the most unbelievable drivel.

  60. Dagenham Dave on said:

    This argument has also played out on the Anti-Fascist site Lancaster Unity which has also ground to a halt. Sonia Gable (?) had to go on there herself and issue a brief explanation/apology. Lancs Unity used to be a UAF supporting site but the sheer weight of the HNH/Searchlight machine took it over and to be fair put it on the right track. The staff at HNH/Searchlight are (or were) by far the greatest writers on the subject anywhere.

    Whatever has happened at Searchlight/HNH there is no denying that the absence of Lowles and his band has left Searchlight in an appalling condition. Primo Levi was even resurrected from the grave to write two pages for them this month (or is it last month?)

    Between them the Gables write something like 8 pages in their own names and possibly another 4 or 5 under cover of anonymity.

    And how about the conspiracy and downright nonsense that Gable has been able to slip back in to his magazine since their departure? Searchlight is now devoid of news or analysis and the most mundane of fascist tribulations are strung out to the point where it is elasticated.

    With Lowles as editor we had the benefit of very little Gable. Those of us who had been around HNH/Searchlight for a few years were quite aware that Mr Gable inhabited a world or magical fairies and Goblins. This is probably what has tickled and fed the likes of O’Hara and his friends like Griffin/Harrington for so long. In B&D the assembled HNH/Searchlight staff would actually leave the room when Gable arrived to the point where very few people actually knew that it was the Gerry Gable of Anti-Fascist fame we were talking to.

    The whole thing is bitterly sad but not much is getting said to anyone who cares to ask. The HNH web and blog sites continue to be updated with good stories and the team around them continue to produce the goods so one can assume that if the HNH team do produce a publication that it would be the final nail in the Gable/Searchlight coffin.

    I do think somebody should be appointed to mediate so that we do not lose the most important Anti-Fascist publication in the world.

  61. Yes the net has really opened up the floodgates on info on the fash – EDL News, One Million United, Expose, UAF – Searchlight/HNH no longer have anything approaching a monopoly on useful info.

  62. Anonymous on said:

    HnH are nothing to do with anti-fascism. They are a zionist propaganda outfit. They concentrate on the BNP safe in the knowledge that it is yesterday’s man and a dead duck but are anxious that the EDL get a fair hearing and are not confronted on the streets by their potential victims but that their rampages are safely policed/protected.

  63. #91, Whatever tactical disagreements I might have with HnH, and I do agree with your assessment to an extent, it is stretching it a bit to say they have “nothing to do with anti-fascism”. Sure their approach is problematic and wrongheaded but they aren’t a “zionist propaganda outfit”. Such exaggeration doesn’t do anti-fascists any favours.

  64. Daniel Howe on said:

    To be honest, I think everyone knew Gable was past it.

    His years of sectarian stupidity have obviously come home to roost. The magazine is awful and full of absolute mind altering rubbish.

  65. Without doubt, the hope not war campaign has achieved much.Yet what have the coffins from Iraq and Afghanistan achieved as they arrived home.

    The troops in both areas will be home soon, and the Shia and Sunni will be left to their ethnic cleansing.

    Was the coffins worth their value.

  66. Jellytot on said:

    @95 Searchlight printed an intriguing story in their August 1994 issue boasting of having obtained a local BNP bulletin ” Leeds Patriot ” after it had been “left in the pub”

    I used to work in a pub many years ago and after closing time we’d find all manner of stuff left behind, from those early ‘house brick’ mobile phones to, on one occasion, a false limb!

    It’s entirely possible that Leeds BNP mislaid that bulletin without Mossad, MI5, CIA, being involved?

    @88 I do think somebody should be appointed to mediate so that we do not lose the most important Anti-Fascist publication in the world.

    I wouldn’t be too hard on the Gables/Searchlight. The last two issues haven’t been up to scratch but it’s early days after the departure of Mr. Lowles and I’m sure after a period of transition they will get back on their feet again and start producing a really good magazine.

    @91 They are a zionist propaganda outfit.

    That almost sounds like an exact repeat of the Patrick Harrington charge over the years. And we all know what HE means when he uses the term ‘Zionist’.

    No wonder ‘ted’ @ #92 voiced his concerns.

  67. #90 One Million United may have wound up as they were primarily focused on the BNP, but they produced a number of useful pieces of analysis and info.
    Expose are ‘Exposing Racism and Intolerance Online’ on Facebook and ‘Exposetweets’ on Twitter, both of which, like EDL News and Everything EDL, are goldmines of evidence and info for anti-fascists. Searchlight does have real life moles in meetings etc from time and that is a significant advantage. UAF clearly don’t “just rehash HnH material” – this is classic HnH self-aggrandisement. Have a look at the UAF website: http://www.uaf.org.uk

  68. “There are of course real infiltrators into left and environmentalist groups as is currently being demonstrated by the exposures of various police officers but it was the groups themselves that did the exposing and the infiltrations were of a very amateurish nature.”

    That’s exactly what happened with Tim Hepple and exactly what Green Anarchist did! No, who was he working for again?

  69. Anonymous on said:

    #99 `@91 They are a zionist propaganda outfit.

    That almost sounds like an exact repeat of the Patrick Harrington charge over the years. And we all know what HE means when he uses the term ‘Zionist’.’

    What do you think was `meant’ by it in this instance then jellytwat. Funny how these Stalinists join the AWL at the drop of a hat.

  70. Jellytot on said:

    @102

    It’s just strange to read the ‘Z’ word deployed to critcise HnH on this forum.

    How does the supposed ‘Zionism’ of HnH (and I haven’t a clue if they are or not) direct and influence HnH’s day-to-day operations and propaganda?

    How can one’s support (or otherwise) of an entity in the Middle East drive and dictate the campaign against the BNP and EDL in Britain?

    Or are you just have a sly dig at the religious heritage of some of HnH leading figures?

  71. Anonymous on said:

    #105 That’s right jellytwat join the ranks of those who would make Zionism an untouchable political ideology by branding those who criticise it and the genocidal state it has established with US support as anti-semites. What a piece of work you are. A thorough going political opportunist. Then you ask with faux naivete:

    `How can one’s support (or otherwise) of an entity in the Middle East drive and dictate the campaign against the BNP and EDL in Britain?’

    How was your attitude to every working class movement during the Cold War driven by the foreign policy interests of the Stalinist police state?

  72. Jellytot on said:

    @106

    ‘Undertaker’

    I realise that you probably think that Zionism is some sort of political virus that polutes and infects the body politic of whatever host it comes into contact with, but I can assure you that as far as HopenotHate is concerned, it doesn’t.

    HnH probably contains people who do have sympathy with the State of Israel, others who have no sympathy and even more who don’t express a strong opinion either way.

  73. Anonymous on said:

    #107 `HnH probably contains people who do have sympathy with the State of Israel, others who have no sympathy and even more who don’t express a strong opinion either way.’

    Yes jellytwat and it is the appeasement of the former that has turned HnH into an islamaphobic zionist front which includes in its definition of fascism anybody who doesn’t support the right of Israel to exist, for its shock troop settlers in the occupied territories to feel safe and increasingly anyone who just has a bit of sympathy with the Palestinians. Lowles is a zionist and not a part time one either. Clearly the Zionist political ideology doesn’t bother you though.

    #108 HnH tried to get Gilad and his band which consists of people from all over the world banned from performing at a festival not long ago. Fortunately their attempts at censorship were rebuffed. Lowles made an arse of himself as usual.

  74. Jellytot on said:

    @110 Here is Lowles pathetic little campaign to get a renowned musician…..

    Would that be the same musician who seeks to negate the Holocaust?

    As a supporter of Gilad Atzmon we can see where you are coming from ‘Anon’. Do you agree with his views on the Holocaust?

    Even the SWP have nothing to do with him anymore.

  75. Anonymous on said:

    #111 Enlighten us oh mighty jelly twat as to atzmon’s views on the holocaust. Direct quotes please with links. Turns out you are another HnH `close down all critics type’ yourself.

  76. Jellytot on said:

    @112

    Didn’t you read your link in #110 ?

    Atzmon:

    “When I was young and naïve I was also convinced that what they told us about our ‘collective’ Jewish past really happened……..It took me many years to accept that the Holocaust narrative, in its current form, doesn’t make any historical sense……I am left puzzled here; if the Nazis ran a death factory in Auschwitz-Birkenau, why would the Jewish prisoners join them at the end of the war? Why didn’t the Jews wait for their Red liberators?”

    Questions, negation and doubt….all the classic tools of Holocaust Deniers like Butz and Irving.

    Atzmon uses the sentence, “if the Nazis ran a death factory in Auschwitz-Birkenau” in exactly the same way as Holocaust Deniers; to cast doubt.

    There were gas chambers at Auschwitz and the Nazis gassed Jews and others in them.

    Does Atzmon doubt this? He seems to.

  77. #103 “How does O’Hara know that Hepple, whoever he was or wasn’t, did he ever exist, offered anyone arms and high tech communications equipment? This is pure fantasy.”

    If you need to know who Tim Hepple was, one version is available from Searchlight -they published his memoirs, and reported in glowing terms the work he did for them in the far-right.

    For some reason they did not concentrate on his work inside the left and environmentalist movements, which included admissions, in his own hand writing, to Green Anarchist’s members that he had taken part in military training, and attempts (thankfully rebuffed) to get GA involved in very serious violence.

    Has it not occured to you that far from making this up, O’Hara was in large part reporting what those groups on the left had told him about Hepple?

  78. Anon – ask and ye shall receive.

    Here is a paragraph from an essay by Paul Eisen that Atzmon cheered and distributed to his email list.

    ‘Nothing seems to fit about the gassing story. The numbers of victims crammed into the space, the design and construction of the gassing facilities, the lack of protection for the attendants, the implausibility surrounding the rate of cremation, the huge errors, omissions and disparities in eye-witness accounts — all these and more, when added to the near total absence of hard affirmative evidence, makes one wonder why anyone believed such a story in the first place.’

    This is, as it happens, a pile of Nazi lies, each of them refuted resoundingly in the David Irving trial, although Paul Eisen ignores that.

    Atzmon thought this essay was so wonderful he couldn’t wait to share it with his friends. He continues to call its author, Paul Eisen, ‘a good friend’ and only last year played at a fundraiser for Eisen’s organization.

    Please point to the sentence in this excerpt, which Atzmon called ‘great’, you think is not Nazi cack.

  79. prianikoff on said:

    Is there any truth to the rumour that Gilad Atzmon will soon be appearing at a LAOS rally in Greece, celebrating the expulsion of the Jews from Thessaloniki in 1941, where he will simultaneously play his saxophone, while polishing the boots of Giorgios Karatzeferis with his own spittle.

  80. Jellytot on said:

    “Anon” at #109, #110 & #112 may be a Holocaust Denier himself/herself and may just be an old-fashioned Jew Hater who sees Jewish plots, schemes and conspiracies everywhere?

  81. #117 could be – that’s why I want to see whether he sees anything at all defensible in the Eisen stuff Atzmon was so thrilled about. I’ll bet he finds it easier to simply vanish into the mist, rather than admit that Atzmon distributes Holocaust denial propaganda.

  82. tony collins on said:

    Our anonymous friend is none other than “perspicacious”, “Trevor Carvery” etc. And thus, probably David Ellis as well.

  83. Tony from Aus on said:

    “which includes in its definition of fascism anybody who doesn’t support the right of Israel to exist”

    If that is true its a serious problem. There is nothing fascist about opposing a state whose definition of citizenship is based on the presence or absence of a Jewish grandparant.

    The current redefinition of anti-semitism as anti-Zionism is pernicious, and very much part of the tide of racist Islamaphobia sweeping the West.

    This is something I wrote on the subject a couple of months ago.
    http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/48938

  84. Tony from Aus on said:

    #120 Incidentally, I forgot my caveat about knowing nothing about HnH, UAF or any other British anti-racist group so that’s a big “if” at the beginning of my comment above.

  85. Jellytot on said:

    @119Our anonymous friend is none other than “perspicacious”, “Trevor Carvery” etc. And thus, probably David Ellis as well.

    That would be odd as “perspicacious” usually tows the SWP line and I thought they didn’t defend or promote Atzmon anymore.

  86. tony collins on said:

    The thing is, Ellis/etc. is played for amusement by whoever created it. As is the current incarnation. What it actually believes is irrelevant.

  87. anomylous on said:

    anon above is defiitely not swp – you can tell straight away because they don’t use misogynistic swear words

  88. Don’t think we’re going to find out either way. As you’d expect from an Atzmon fan, ask a straight question and he’s gone with the wind.

  89. #123 no he was very defensive of Atzmon on the recent thread, and accused Andy of attacking him as part of a plot to delegitimise anti-Zionism.

    I don’t think it’s him either btw.

  90. tony collins on said:

    Trust me, it’s him. Or, as I’ve suspected for a while, there’s more than one person living at his/her address, and they all take turns. It’s performance art.

    I’ve traced back the postings for several months, and they consistently come from the same 2 IP addresses.

  91. Friar Tuck on said:

    I was waiting for confirmation on the Radio 4 news yesterday evening to my suspicions of an EDL link. But it never came. In the interest of impartiality I suppose. Fuck me , we should be told !

  92. Anonymous on said:

    #117 `“Anon” at #109, #110 & #112 may be a Holocaust Denier himself/herself and may just be an old-fashioned Jew Hater who sees Jewish plots, schemes and conspiracies everywhere?’

    Wrong jelly twat. The modern anti-semite has donned the cloak of Zionism. They know that the easiest way to rid Europe and America of Jews is if they walk out voluntarily to live in the Israeli ghetto. An added bonus might be that Jews and Arabs will then blow eachother to kingdom come. If anybody is an anti-semite I suspect it is you. But Zionism is an aspect of HnH ideology that it shares with the EDL which is why they are a completely ineffective force for tackling fascism. They have a common interest.

  93. pink freud on said:

    #133 “But Zionism is an aspect of HnH ideology that it shares with the EDL which is why they are a completely ineffective force for tackling fascism. They have a common interest.”

    Unsubstantiated bile. You need to get your head seen to.

  94. #135 I find it suspicious when people choose for whatever reason to link the issue of Israel and Palestine with fascism in this country.

    The reality is that it is perfectly possible to be a supporter of Israel and a committed oponent of the EDL or BNP.

    Personally I think this is slightly contradictory to say the least because I view Israel as a racist colonial state responsible for ethnic cleanisng.

    But that contradiction is a problem for those who hold both views, not me, and not the potential victims of fascism. I am not going to ask people on an anti-fascist protest whether they support Israel or not and tell them to f*** off if they do.

    Sensible people want to isolate their enemies, not force more into their ranks.

    But this is not a discussion with a sensible person as we can see.

  95. Anonymous on said:

    #137 Now that is a keeper. Everybody could profit from analysing that comment, eeking out the tiny grain of truth within it, as even the biggest lie contains a grain of truth, and then isolating the chemically pure political opportunism it seeks to impose on our movement.

    Hey, I’m not going to turn anybody away who wishes to oppose the EDL/BNP on the other hand I’m not going to hand the struggle against one set of genocidal racists to another set of genocidal racists especially when they have a common anti-Muslim agenda. It is necessary to accept the political challenge in these circumstances not push it under the carpet as our opportunist friend here tries to do.

    Conversely of course those who would eradicate the Palestinians never cease to tell them who is and who is not allowed to support their cause. Nobody has a right to impose that on the righteous cause of the Palestinians especially not their oppressors.

  96. Anonymous on said:

    I’m afraid to say that though a section of Zionism might find itself in temporary opposition to nazism or fascism (in this case because it has infiltrated an anti-fascist movement with a large Jewish presence)it will ditch that struggle in favour of a `my enemies enemy is my friend’ policy because Israel for it is ultimately the only priority. It is our job to make sure that the Zionists, especially if they are young people of Jewish heritage rather than the anti-semite non-Jewish Zionists, ditch their zionism and not the struggle against fascism.

  97. Anonymous on said:

    HnH a ‘mass movement’ claims Victor Serge ,he must have a funny idea of what constitutes a ‘mass movement’
    Lowles entire strategy since taking control of HnH ( and how odd that a supposed ‘mass movement’ has no conferences.no elections and no means of the none existent masses having any say in how the ‘mass movement operates )has been to use the resources HnH receives from some unions to ‘demobilise’ people.
    In my area HnH was run entirely by local trade union bureaucrats who turned it on and off when it suited them,no attempt was made to allow anyone but the very dubious UNISON leadership ( themselves tainted by real accusations of racism) to have a say on what HnH did or didn’t do.
    The outcome is that HnH is effectively dead around here, the annual conferences they organised ( with the wonderful Islamophobic and discredited racist Phil Woolas as guest key note speaker at one conference !) have ended.
    Their ‘mobilisation against the EDL was pathetic embarrassing and frankly a danger to those few who turned up.
    Activity seems to amount to am email sent out by a local bureaucrat announcing a leafletting campaign that never happens because ever time it is called off due to ‘lack of interest’.
    No amount of blather from HnH and Nick Lowles Groupees like JellyTot can hide the fact that Lowles has managed to destroy whatever Searchlight had built over the years.
    His new ‘magazine’ will be nothing more than a vehicle for his increasing accomodation to soft racist ideas ( over the issue of course of ‘Islamic Extremism which that idiot Victor has already given us a taste of )
    HnH has become an obstacle to the fight against fascism hence the EDL pay it little attention and focus instead of attacking UAF.
    Some of the stuff on here however with regard to ‘zionism’ and personal attacks on Gerry Gable ( of who I am no great fan ) proves why this site has degenerated into a sectarian cess pit and open to every troll out there.

  98. Note what’s missing from the raving troll Anon’s flow of foam-flecked spew – anything even approximating a response to #115.

    Why? Because he can’t.

    Step up, Anon! Show the world there’s more to you than comedic madhatterdom.

  99. Just had a glance on here to see what was being discussed…same as ever. All heat, no light, but plenty of insults.

    Was the title of the site “Socialist Unity” supposed to be ironic?

  100. Jellytot on said:

    @135 If anybody is an anti-semite I suspect it is you.

    But it is you who are defending Gilad Atzmon in #110 above.

    Your posts ‘Anon’ are full of hateful sectarian bile and Ultra-Left lunacy.

    And your conspiracy theory that HopenotHate are some sort of Zionist “cuckoo-in-the-nest” of the British anti-fascist movement could have been written on Stormfront, ‘British Democracy’ or any other fascist forum.

    Thank god for the sanity of Vanya at #137

  101. Jellytot on said:

    @137 The reality is that it is perfectly possible to be a supporter of Israel and a committed oponent of the EDL or BNP.

    Absolutely.

    I have enormous sympathy for the plight of the Palestinian people but I am not going to refuse to fight alongside Zionists against a common enemy and am not going to put preconditions on anybody, unlike some on here.

  102. Jellytot on said:

    @141 this site has degenerated into a sectarian cess pit and open to every troll out there.

    Well, fuck off then.

  103. Jellytot on said:

    #145 #145 Indeed and the same goes for fighting alongside Islamists against the EDL et al.

    I have no problem doing that considering that the term ‘Islamist’ (like Zionist) can include a multitude of viewpoints, from mild to militant.

    However I would be curious about the practicalities, on the ground, of unting with, say, a MAC style group to oppose the EDL.

    Joint demos and work with MAC-style Islamists would be nigh-on impossible IMO and has the UAF ever even attempted this?

  104. Anonymous on said:

    #148 gzort i’m a different anonymous! that’s the problem with being anonymous eh.

    #149 not to my knowledge – they are a bit too ‘out there’ for joint work with anyone besides their own couple of dozen bampots

  105. Jellytot on said:

    @150 they are a bit too ‘out there’ for joint work with anyone besides their own couple of dozen bampots

    Careful, some on here consider any criticism of MAC, United Ummah (or whatever name they are going under now) as ‘Islamophobic’.

  106. tony collins on said:

    this site has degenerated into a sectarian cess pit and open to every troll out there.

    See, it’s interesting when you look behind the scenes and realise that the person talking about “trolls” is The Undertaker, who has posted under no less than 6 names just in the last few weeks.

    Undertaker, people like you have done more to harm relationships and debate on here than anyone else.

  107. Jellytot on said:

    @152 See, it’s interesting when you look behind the scenes and realise that the person talking about “trolls” is The Undertaker

    It’s fairly obvious given his awful writing style.

    His fellow SWP’ers must be embarrassed by him, especially considering his defence of Gilad Atzmon.

  108. tony collins on said:

    Sory Vanya, should’ve been clearer. That anonymous is a different anonymous. You’re right about that – but the other anon is the Ellis character, or another character by the same people. The Undertaker just popped up here today in this thread. You end up getting what could be an interesting discussion diverted by people with the emotional age of a small child.

  109. tony collins on said:

    I don’t have a problem with people posting anonymously – I would rather people chose one name and stuck to it, even if it’s made up. Everyone sometimes thinks up a joke name for the odd post, but the practice of changing the posting name every week, or always calling yourself “anonymous”, ends up meaning you can’t have meaningful discussion.

  110. Anonymous on said:

    People who post anonymously are bottle merchants and they fuck up the discussion by causing endless confusion.

    Bunch of wankers!

  111. Jellytot on said:

    @156You end up getting what could be an interesting discussion diverted by people with the emotional age of a small child

    I’ve always regarded ‘Undertaker’ as more of a hormonal mid-teenager.

  112. “Careful, some on here consider any criticism of MAC, United Ummah (or whatever name they are going under now) as ‘Islamophobic’.”

    Really? And who are they then?

  113. Jellytot on said:

    @160 Really? And who are they then?

    On some HnH versus UAF threads last summer some UAF/SWP supporters (which certainly included ‘Undertaker’) stated that condemnation of MAC was “ritualistic”, “pandered to the Right” and went onto condemn the supposed ‘Islamophobic’ adgenda of HopenotHate for daring to criticise MAC.

  114. #161
    It wasn’t just UAF/SWP members, JT, I also argued that same line and it is a mistake to equate an idiotic but, frankly, toothless group like MAC with proven thugs and conspirators like the EDL.

  115. cliff foot on said:

    FYI, Pcs and Uaf are leafleting against the Bnp, door to Door, in Feltham, this weekend, in London. There is a by election in the Feltham and Heston ward next Thursday, in which the scum are standing.

    Pcs have paid for the leaflets, bless em and will be out over the weekend, with various bods from Uaf. Just the sort of work still essential, to ensure the Bnp remain in the gutter.

  116. Dagenham Dave on said:

    I spoke to somebody from HNH today and though I cannot repeat what they have told me I do believe that this separation was most definitely for the best.

  117. Simple really,ideal and history,line chosen, no budge.Heh socialism! and your being would be knowing.What was those peoples knowing who came back.

    Who are you, what do you know.Who!s book are you playing with.

  118. The link between Holocaust denial and the decision by HnH to oppose mobilisation against the fascists is actually the dimateric opposite of what is claimed.

    It was precisely the refusal of the Left forces to mobilise against Hitler, both the Social Democrats and the German Communist Party under the tutelage of Stalin, that led directly to the Holocaust.

    The HnH line has been tried. It was a welcome mat for the Fascists.

  119. Jellytot on said:

    @169 decision by HnH to oppose mobilisation against the fascists

    HnH constantly mobilise against the fascists.

    One of many examples was the mass petitioning prior to September 3rd which led to the EDL march being banned and the mass of EDL supporters not actually being able to set foot in the borough on the day, so scuppering their plans to set off a riot.

    What we don’t do is pretend to be a ‘Lewisham 1977 re-enactment society’.

  120. 170 & 171.

    Petitioning is good. Bans are good. But the EDL still turned up on the day.

    If there was no mobilisation they would have marched through Tower Hamlets, and would have been crowing about it still.

    They didn’t and can’t because of the mobilisation against them, of which the UAF was part.

  121. Dagenham Dave on said:

    Frank, are you seriously saying that the UAF stopped the EDL from marching? Putting aside your revolutionary posturing you surely cannot believe that?

    After two and a half years of the EDL the UAF has never stopped them doing anything. It has become a bit embarrassing, even for the UAF surely.

  122. “SA, I beginning to think that you are just thick. You have no arguments whatsoever. You remind me of a child having a tantrum. Can you tell all of us adults what your point is?”

    I’m sure the adults here grasped my point but to help you I will reiterate it is there a split between HnH and Searchlight or not? I see you have now got to the point of damning Gerry Gable with faint praise while sadly concluding that he is past it. HnH though it seems has your approbation.

    You need not have bothered with all this bollix you could have simply said nothing or that there is a split but its for the best.

    That aside I found your post at 95 amusing.

  123. 173 & 174

    Let’s take a counterfactual example. No mobilisation by the local community, the mosques, residents organisations and the Left, including the UAF.

    Just the EDL and the police. When, ever or anywhere, have the police stopped
    Fascists marching when there was no mobilisation by anti-Fascists, either recently or historically?

    This is because there is a common misunderstanding, shared by both HnH and much of the UAF, on whether mass mobilisation alone is the necessary condition to stop the Fascists, or necessary at all. Cable Street didnt end the BUF demonstrations. The police did- because the authorities were concerned by the strength and radicalsm of the anti-Fascist mobilisation.

    Whether you like it or not if you were there on the day in Tower Hamlets, you were part of the anti-Fascist mobilisation (whether you hate the UAF or not).

  124. ” What immediately then happened was that Stott pops up quoting O’Hara who, and I hope everyone now knows this, is mad, to suggest some kind of split between Searchlight and HnH.”

    In fact it was yourself who pitched in at 35, and mentioned O’Hara, presumably responding to Jelly and Omar. Way before Stott appeared at 41. I doubt you could lie straight in bed.

  125. victor serge, what is an ‘outsider’ at an anti-fascist rally? Would someone who works in the area but doesn’t live there,be an outsider? Would someone whose relatives live there but he/she doesn’t, be an outsider? would someone who lives in a next door borough be an outsider?

    Or, from a theoretical rather than a topographical point of view, what constitutes being ‘outside’ a fascist/anti-fascist confrontation?

  126. Incidentally, I saw Billy Bragg’s name mentioned approvingly up above. I like Billy very much even if I sometimes disagree with what he’s saying but was he an insider or outside at the B and D election? He was (obviously) brought up in Becontree but he doesn’t live there now. Inside or outside? And why or how does it matter? Either way.

  127. Anonymous on said:

    Having just read ‘victors’ totally untrue account #177 of what happened in Tower Hamlets I now am certain he is a far right troll quite clever but transparent all the same
    Fuck off Vic

  128. Dagenham Dave on said:

    Michael, an “outsider” at an anti-fascist rally is someone who is white, middle class and from outside of the area who shouts into a megaphone rubbish like “smash the EDL” and tries to get young Asians locked up and in confrontation with the police.

    I believe it goes by the name of Martin Smith.

  129. DD, so, apart from you not liking Martin Smith, can we unpack some of that? You gave us four categories that disqualify a person from joining the demo:
    1. white
    2. middle class
    3. from outside the area
    4. shouting into a microphone ‘smash the edl’

    I’m guessing that you mean it’s when all four categories are in play, you’re disqualified or…clear this up please: can you be disqualified for being just 1,2 or 3 of these things eg
    white
    or
    white and middle class
    or white and outside the area (but could be working class)
    or middle class and black (but outsidethe area)
    and so on.

    I think we need clarity here.

    And, what is ‘area’? That street? That ward? That borough? That town? That county? I wonder if all this could be drawn up by someone so that we all know which demos we are allowed to go on and which ones we’re not.

    Thanks.

  130. Halshall on said:

    #180 Mike Rosen

    Your dead right Mike.

    Yes I was there in Whitechapel with 1000s of other anti-facists, most of them locals (estimate at least 6000), but many others like myself as ‘outsiders’. So what if I’m a Jew in his 60s from an adjoining London borough ?
    And collectively, all of us together Muslims, Jews, Christians, atheists and others, prevented any possibility of the police escorting the EDL through Whitechapel.

    If that’s not stopping fascists from marching then what is ?
    Some of us even occupied Gardiners Corner ! The old cliche ‘history repeats itself………….’ seems to apply here, only this time the farce was the EDL, who managed to get 77 of themselves arrested whilst bottled up in the City. (this includes those on the lone rogue coach that went through Whitechapel later and had to be ‘rescued’ by the police.)
    By the way Mike are you related to the Rosen’s who had a small bakery shop in BG road many years ago ?

  131. Barking Billy on said:

    Hey Dagenham Dave this ‘HnH ‘you claim you spoke to was he/she an elected officer, a member of the HnH committee or the treasurer ?
    As none of the above exist are you just Jelly in another guise
    I spoke to someone from HnH too he tell’s me is all about the money sums Lowles up really

  132. No halshall, I’m related the Rosens who were boot and shoe workers in Brockton, Mass., and the Brookstones who were millinery workers in Whitechapel.

  133. cliff foot on said:

    Nice one Mike Rosen, for pointing out some of the nonsense on here. As to comments like “what uaf do helps the fascists”, #170 or “the coalition of anti semites based around the mosque” at Whitechapel, shows the shite that some are capable of. Mr Serge, clearly aint aware, though he claims to be more local than local in East London, of the link with local synagogues that the Whitechapel Mosque has had for some time. Or tthe fact that the Rabbi from the main synagogue spoke at the large Uaf /United East End Rally, held at the Mosque pre the Sept 3rd attempted Edl demo. So much for anti semitism.

    Fortunately, the Hope nOT hate people that I know aint nothing like this character and reserve their venom for the far right. Our differences are shared in an atmosphere of mutual respect, not the old fartism which several on here exemplify. Feltham went well, leafleting against the Bnp yesterday, and at short notice Leicester Uaf hhas just mobilised 40 -50 bods against a proposed racist rally after an ugly attack which the scum were aiming to mobilise around today. Their event was pulled at the last minute, a good day for our side.

  134. Halshall on said:

    #189 Mike

    Perhaps the Goldmans were part of what used to be Raine’s dairy who made the smatana yogurt that my Dad used as a base for his strawberry schmaydray ?

  135. Harry White on said:

    victor serge

    i’ve been following your spat with stott and o’hara with interest. are you going to post a reply to 114 or have you bottled it?

  136. How many of the fascists posing as anti-fascists on this thread are pretending to be HnH and how many UAF?

  137. Anonymous on said:

    #192 even jelly the fantasist knows there is no such thing as an ‘elected official’ of hnh as that would require an election.
    Best stick to pretending to be a local dagenham boy and not a middle class white man from surbiton.
    You’re barking pal

  138. #196 Well well. Looks like my suspicions were correct.

    The mask slips.

    How many stellas have you had Terry?

  139. Hello Victor Serge
    I’m going to take this step by step.
    1. I don’t live in Hackney.
    2. I’m not a Trot.
    3. You’ve said I’ve lied on many occasions – please give us some of these ‘many’. As it happens, it’s quite a serious accusation. I’m not anonymous here. You are. I suggest that you’ve made that accusation whilst hiding behind your anonymity. The nice way to express my feelings about that is to say that I think that’s a bit of cheek. The not-so-nice way is to suggest that whoever you are in all your cowardly anonymity go fuck yourself. Take your pick.
    4. I didn’t say anyone was or wasn’t ‘local’. That was a word that someone else used. All I asked for was a definition so that we could talk about what ‘local’ means and how or why it was relevant to an anti-fascist demo.
    5. I see at 197, you’ve repeated the accusation without an example or evidence. On that basis, I’ll suggest to the host, Andy, that the person victor serge should be asked to either shit or get off the pot. If he does neither, I propose that he has disqualified himself from open robust debate.

  140. Halshall, nowhere near as grand as Raine’s dairy for my Goldman’s. She ran a two-bit one-room shop on Globe Road that lost money and she gave it up after a few years – I think her father (the immigrant) had been a bit more successful at some point in the 1920s somewhere near Hessel Street.

  141. Oh is victor serge, Terry fitz? I wondered when Tezza was going to come back. I don’t think I ever found out what happened at the trial where he was going to prove something – but then I’ve forgotten what it was he was going to prove. Shit, why do I miss all the really important stuff? Come back, Tezza and tell all. You are the guardsvan of the proletariat – we need you now more than ever before.

  142. I agree for once with Michael.

    It’s time for “Victor Serge” to leave the building. Something he’s probably used to being asked to do.

  143. #202 Sorry I posted my agreement with you before I saw that!

    Well it’s you he’s been abusing…

  144. vanya, I don’t come here often enough to know who you are or whether you agree with me or not, or indeed whether, in the great run of things, why this should matter to me, to you or indeed to anyone else. But hell, what a treat for me. Someone who calls himself vanya agrees with me. Tonight has turned out good after all.

  145. MODERATOR COMMENT: IT BECAME CLEAR THAT THE PERSON POSTING AS VICTOR SERGE WAS TERRY FITZ WHO IS BANNED FROM POSTING HERE FOLLOWING HIS ARREST AND SUBSEQUENT CONVICTION FOR RACIALLY AGGRAVATED HARRASSMENT. I THINK ALL COMMENTS HAVE NOW BEEN REMOVED. IT TOOK A WHILE BEFORE IT BECAME APPARENT WHO WAS MAKING THESE COMMENTS AS THE EARLIER ONES APPEARED RATIONAL.]

  146. Anonymous on said:

    Well done Andrew for spotting Mr Fitz, though it was somewhat belatedly as clearly a number of others .mostly it seems those from the UAF side of this debate got in before you.
    Perhaps we can expect an apology from Dagenham David or the increasingly bizarre Jellytot who of course leapt on Fitz’s attacks on UAF and treat him as a kindred spirit, which of course in many ways he is, any port in a storm eh Jelly ?

  147. #170 I deserved that Michael :)

    #172 Without wishing to blow my own trumpet but it was signifcantly someone without a specific exclusive attachment to either UAF or HnH who seems to have spotted him first.

    I don’t blame Jelly (although I am sure he is feeling embarassed) because Fitz, as Andy as pointed out, was making relatively rational comments to begin with.

    It was in fact his comments on the WW2 thread about nationa liberation that set alarm bells ringing for me.

    Fitz always had a lot of shite to say about other things than anti-fascism.

  148. Jellytot on said:

    @207increasingly bizarre Jellytot who of course leapt on Fitz’s attacks on UAF and treat him as a kindred spirit, which of course in many ways he is, any port in a storm eh Jelly ?

    Unlike youself (and Fitzpatrick) I do not use multiple alaises in order to muddy the waters, confuse things and make debate difficult. Make up one handle and stick to it. Adolescent games are tiresome.

    Fitzpatrick’s comments started out fairly sensible and rational but he clearly had an adgenda to deceive everybody on here, be they HnH or UAF supporters.

    It was only laterly that he went off the rails and it became clear who and what he is.

    I am sure he is feeling embarassed

    I am not. He made some good and non-racist points at the beginning and I engaged with him in a sincere manner. Had I known who he was I would have blanked him.

    That stated, I am on the record here as finding him and his appalling racist abuse of Lee Jasper beyond the pale.

  149. prianikoff on said:

    Revealed: international far-right network that lies behind the EDL

    By Tash Shifrin (extract)

    “The network of shadowy strategists behind the English Defence League is now under the spotlight as the identities of its leading figures are revealed.

    The group of viciously Islamophobic ideologues supports and brings together far-right racist and fascist groups across Europe.

    It has been centrally involved in the EDL from its beginnings in 2009 and has overseen the alliance announced last month with the British Freedom Party – a splinter group of former British National Party leaders”

    http://uaf.org.uk/2011/12/edl-network-revealed/

  150. My Names Bond, Jelly Bond on said:

    Excellent article and it gives the lie to those including many( to their shame) on here who spent some time trying to tell us how ‘proletarian’ the lumpen scum of the EDL was and how the EDL represented a genuine ‘working class ‘ response to supposed Islamic extremism a position it has to be said that is not too far away from Lowles.

  151. #177 The opposite side of the coin from Fitz.

    Other anti-fascists are as bad as the fascists.

    Now whose agenda does that serve?